[Olpc-Haiti] our Haiti translation site's now in English+ French + on Facebook too!
Chris Low
christinewlow at gmail.com
Wed Feb 3 15:00:46 EST 2010
Maybe you could say instead of Do you speak Creole, Can you translate
English into written Creole?
Chris Low
MCLC Co-director
www.matenwaclc.org
617 543 8844 USA cell
011 509 3 711 0661 Haiti cell
011 509 2 513 0217 LKM
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On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Carmina Mevs wrote:
> Thank you all for your responses,
> it gave me a few more avenues to explore.
> Very enlightening discussion!
> Mark, can't wait to hear more from you :-)
> Thanks
> Carmina
>
> &*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*
> Do you speak Creole?
> Haiti needs your help!
> Can you Help?
> www.raisehaitiup.com
> &*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 7:46 AM, Mark Tomizawa <m at smash.com> wrote:
> Michel et al,
>
> Community people who are fluent (spoken, written) are ready to help
> by serving as translators. They live in Somerville, Dorchester and
> Greater Boston. Many have relatives back in Haiti. Who should they
> speak with?
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2010, at 12:36 AM, Michel DeGraff wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Carmina et al,
> >
> > Thank you for sharing your own experience with us vis-à-vis Kreyòl
> > writing.
> >
> > When it comes to the education of Kreyòl speaking children, my own
> > belief is that a (substantially) imperfect Kreyòl translation will
> do
> > more harm than good. In my view, the XO, like any computer, is a
> > _tool_, not an end. The quality of the materials that are
> installed on
> > the XO is key to its success as a tool. And we certainly do not
> want our
> > children to be using an instrument that uses an imperfect version of
> > their language---a language that has long been stigmatized out of
> "class
> > bias," to use John Rigdon's term. And the socio-political message
> would
> > be problematic as well: it would be as if Kreyòl-speaking children
> do
> > not "deserve" the same quality of materials as children speaking
> > English, French, Spanish, etc.
> >
> > One unfortunate fact is that the social history of Kreyòl, steeped
> in
> > (neo-)colonialism and slavery, is very different from that of
> English,
> > French, Spanish, and so on. And the predicament of Kreyòl
> speakers who
> > cannot write Kreyòl is one consequence of that history, and we do
> need
> > to take this history into account in planning educational projects
> for
> > Haiti. But Kreyòl also has its strengths (e.g., in its uniform
> > spelling system) which can be an asset for technology design---for
> > example, text-to-speech software like "Speak" on the XO.
> >
> > Another good news is that there do exist professional Kreyòl
> > translators. For example:
> >
> > http://creoletrans.com/
> >
> > I hope this helps,
> >
> > -michel.
> >
> _____________________________________________________________________
> > MIT Linguistics & Philosophy 77 Massachusetts Ave Cambridge MA
> 02139
> > degraff at MIT.EDU http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/people/faculty/
> degraff
> >
> _____________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Message from carminablaise at gmail.com ---------
> > Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 23:47:02 -0500
> > From: Carmina Blaise <carminablaise at gmail.com>
> > Reply-To: Carmina Blaise <carminablaise at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Olpc-Haiti] our Haiti translation site's now in
> English+
> > French + on Facebook too!
> > To: Michel DeGraff <degraff at mit.edu>
> >
> >
> >> Michel, John,
> >>
> >> This conversation rings so true to me being one of the Haitians
> who speak
> >> but not write Kreyol.
> >> It also explains the reticence or what I perceived as a lack of
> enthusiasm
> >> from my peers when trying to recruit volunteer translators.
> >>
> >> It's not because my Haitian brothers and sisters don't care, but
> because
> >> like me, I suppose that they are intimidated by the task at hand
> >> and maybe even embarrassed to admit that they can not write Kreyol.
> >>
> >> Your idea of paying "professional" Kreyol translators is an
> interesting one
> >> with many positive ramifications
> >>
> >> But the problem as I see it is where do we find "professional"
> Kreyol
> >> translators?
> >>
> >> Is an imperfect Kreyol translation worse than no translation?
> >>
> >> Looking forward to hearing your suggestions
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Carmina
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> &*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*
> >> Do you speak Creole?
> >> Haiti needs your help!
> >> Can you Help?
> >> www.raisehaitiup.com
> >> &*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Michel DeGraff <degraff at mit.edu>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> John,
> >>>
> >>> I agree with your comment re:
> >>>
> >>> > It has been my experience that most Haitian adults in the
> diaspora do
> >>> > not read Kreyol well, although they speak it because they were
> >>> > essentially educated in French before
> >>> > leaving Haiti.
> >>>
> >>> And they often write it even less well. And this is not their
> fault: as
> >>> you point out, most educated Haitian adults above certain age
> were never
> >>> trained to write in Kreyòl. These issues need to be kept in
> mind as
> >>> "volunteers" from the diaspora are being enlisted to translate
> >>> interface, software and courseware that are meant to Kreyòl-
> speaking
> >>> children.
> >>>
> >>> This is a point I've stressed many times to OLPC folks, but it
> has often
> >>> fallen on (apparently) deaf ears: translation should be taken as a
> >>> serious professional activity on a par with the sort of
> activities that
> >>> OLPC employees and consultants (in Haiti and elsewhere)
> routinely get
> >>> paid for. I think we have to closely monitor the quality of
> Kreyòl
> >>> translation, especially when it comes to languages like Haitian
> Creole
> >>> that, for too long, have been dismissed as "broken languages" by
> too
> >>> many (though not all) French-speaking Haitians. Of course, this
> is
> >>> related to the "class bias" that you mention in your email---a
> class
> >>> bias with deeply entrenched historical and socio-economic roots.
> >>>
> >>> Kreyòl pale, kreyòl konprann...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -michel.
> >>>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> >>> MIT Linguistics & Philosophy 77 Massachusetts Ave Cambridge MA
> 02139
> >>> degraff at MIT.EDU http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/people/faculty/degraff
> >>>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Message from jrigdon at researchonline.net ---------
> >>> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:08:28 -0500
> >>> From: John Rigdon <jrigdon at researchonline.net>
> >>> Reply-To: John Rigdon <jrigdon at researchonline.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Olpc-Haiti] our Haiti translation site's now in
> English+
> >>> French + on Facebook too!
> >>> To: Michel DeGraff <degraff at mit.edu>, Samuel Klein
> >>> <meta.sj at gmail.com>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Thank you for the clarification Michel.
> >>> >
> >>> > It has been my experience that most Haitian adults in the
> diaspora do
> >>> > not read Kreyol well, although they speak it because they were
> >>> > essentially educated in French before leaving Haiti.
> >>> >
> >>> > It is only those under the age of about 25 who both read and
> speak
> >>> Kreyol.
> >>> >
> >>> > It has been my experience in visiting Haiti over the last few
> years
> >>> > that the majority of the schools are still being taught in
> French,
> >>> > and there is a strong "class" bias to try to learn French and
> >>> > demonstrate profiency. I hope I'm not being offensive here. I
> >>> > really don't mean to be.
> >>> >
> >>> > Happily the young children under about age 12 are really proud
> of
> >>> > their ability to read Kreyol and overwhelmingly they want to
> learn
> >>> > English and Spanish. I think generally these younger children
> >>> > understand Spanish and English better than they do French.
> >>> >
> >>> > When I first visited Haiti about 8 years ago, I identified 55
> books
> >>> > in Kreyol at that time. I think the universe of titles may be
> close
> >>> > to 400 now - maybe double that if you include pamphlets,
> tracts, and
> >>> > brochures.
> >>> >
> >>> > John Rigdon
> >>> > www.ngohaiti.com
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- End message from jrigdon at researchonline.net -----
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Olpc-haiti mailing list
> >>> Olpc-haiti at lists.laptop.org
> >>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-haiti
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ----- End message from carminablaise at gmail.com -----
> >
> >
>
>
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