[Olpc-Haiti] our Haiti translation site's now in English+ French + on Facebook too!
Chris Low
christinewlow at gmail.com
Wed Feb 3 15:44:40 EST 2010
Can we use some fo these translators for MOther Tongue Books ( books
written by children in their classrooms?)
Chris Low
MCLC Co-director
www.matenwaclc.org
617 543 8844 USA cell
011 509 3 711 0661 Haiti cell
011 509 2 513 0217 LKM
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On Feb 3, 2010, at 7:46 AM, Mark Tomizawa wrote:
> Michel et al,
>
> Community people who are fluent (spoken, written) are ready to help
> by serving as translators. They live in Somerville, Dorchester and
> Greater Boston. Many have relatives back in Haiti. Who should they
> speak with?
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2010, at 12:36 AM, Michel DeGraff wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Carmina et al,
>>
>> Thank you for sharing your own experience with us vis-à-vis Kreyòl
>> writing.
>>
>> When it comes to the education of Kreyòl speaking children, my own
>> belief is that a (substantially) imperfect Kreyòl translation will do
>> more harm than good. In my view, the XO, like any computer, is a
>> _tool_, not an end. The quality of the materials that are
>> installed on
>> the XO is key to its success as a tool. And we certainly do not
>> want our
>> children to be using an instrument that uses an imperfect version of
>> their language---a language that has long been stigmatized out of
>> "class
>> bias," to use John Rigdon's term. And the socio-political message
>> would
>> be problematic as well: it would be as if Kreyòl-speaking children do
>> not "deserve" the same quality of materials as children speaking
>> English, French, Spanish, etc.
>>
>> One unfortunate fact is that the social history of Kreyòl, steeped in
>> (neo-)colonialism and slavery, is very different from that of
>> English,
>> French, Spanish, and so on. And the predicament of Kreyòl speakers
>> who
>> cannot write Kreyòl is one consequence of that history, and we do
>> need
>> to take this history into account in planning educational projects
>> for
>> Haiti. But Kreyòl also has its strengths (e.g., in its uniform
>> spelling system) which can be an asset for technology design---for
>> example, text-to-speech software like "Speak" on the XO.
>>
>> Another good news is that there do exist professional Kreyòl
>> translators. For example:
>>
>> http://creoletrans.com/
>>
>> I hope this helps,
>>
>> -michel.
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> MIT Linguistics & Philosophy 77 Massachusetts Ave Cambridge MA 02139
>> degraff at MIT.EDU http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/people/faculty/degraff
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Message from carminablaise at gmail.com ---------
>> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 23:47:02 -0500
>> From: Carmina Blaise <carminablaise at gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: Carmina Blaise <carminablaise at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Olpc-Haiti] our Haiti translation site's now in
>> English+
>> French + on Facebook too!
>> To: Michel DeGraff <degraff at mit.edu>
>>
>>
>>> Michel, John,
>>>
>>> This conversation rings so true to me being one of the Haitians
>>> who speak
>>> but not write Kreyol.
>>> It also explains the reticence or what I perceived as a lack of
>>> enthusiasm
>>> from my peers when trying to recruit volunteer translators.
>>>
>>> It's not because my Haitian brothers and sisters don't care, but
>>> because
>>> like me, I suppose that they are intimidated by the task at hand
>>> and maybe even embarrassed to admit that they can not write Kreyol.
>>>
>>> Your idea of paying "professional" Kreyol translators is an
>>> interesting one
>>> with many positive ramifications
>>>
>>> But the problem as I see it is where do we find "professional"
>>> Kreyol
>>> translators?
>>>
>>> Is an imperfect Kreyol translation worse than no translation?
>>>
>>> Looking forward to hearing your suggestions
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Carmina
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> &*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*
>>> Do you speak Creole?
>>> Haiti needs your help!
>>> Can you Help?
>>> www.raisehaitiup.com
>>> &*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Michel DeGraff <degraff at mit.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> John,
>>>>
>>>> I agree with your comment re:
>>>>
>>>>> It has been my experience that most Haitian adults in the
>>>>> diaspora do
>>>>> not read Kreyol well, although they speak it because they were
>>>>> essentially educated in French before
>>>>> leaving Haiti.
>>>>
>>>> And they often write it even less well. And this is not their
>>>> fault: as
>>>> you point out, most educated Haitian adults above certain age
>>>> were never
>>>> trained to write in Kreyòl. These issues need to be kept in
>>>> mind as
>>>> "volunteers" from the diaspora are being enlisted to translate
>>>> interface, software and courseware that are meant to Kreyòl-
>>>> speaking
>>>> children.
>>>>
>>>> This is a point I've stressed many times to OLPC folks, but it
>>>> has often
>>>> fallen on (apparently) deaf ears: translation should be taken as a
>>>> serious professional activity on a par with the sort of
>>>> activities that
>>>> OLPC employees and consultants (in Haiti and elsewhere) routinely
>>>> get
>>>> paid for. I think we have to closely monitor the quality of Kreyòl
>>>> translation, especially when it comes to languages like Haitian
>>>> Creole
>>>> that, for too long, have been dismissed as "broken languages" by
>>>> too
>>>> many (though not all) French-speaking Haitians. Of course, this is
>>>> related to the "class bias" that you mention in your email---a
>>>> class
>>>> bias with deeply entrenched historical and socio-economic roots.
>>>>
>>>> Kreyòl pale, kreyòl konprann...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -michel.
>>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>>> MIT Linguistics & Philosophy 77 Massachusetts Ave Cambridge MA
>>>> 02139
>>>> degraff at MIT.EDU http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/people/faculty/degraff
>>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Message from jrigdon at researchonline.net ---------
>>>> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:08:28 -0500
>>>> From: John Rigdon <jrigdon at researchonline.net>
>>>> Reply-To: John Rigdon <jrigdon at researchonline.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Olpc-Haiti] our Haiti translation site's now in
>>>> English+
>>>> French + on Facebook too!
>>>> To: Michel DeGraff <degraff at mit.edu>, Samuel Klein
>>>> <meta.sj at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the clarification Michel.
>>>>>
>>>>> It has been my experience that most Haitian adults in the
>>>>> diaspora do
>>>>> not read Kreyol well, although they speak it because they were
>>>>> essentially educated in French before leaving Haiti.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is only those under the age of about 25 who both read and speak
>>>> Kreyol.
>>>>>
>>>>> It has been my experience in visiting Haiti over the last few
>>>>> years
>>>>> that the majority of the schools are still being taught in French,
>>>>> and there is a strong "class" bias to try to learn French and
>>>>> demonstrate profiency. I hope I'm not being offensive here. I
>>>>> really don't mean to be.
>>>>>
>>>>> Happily the young children under about age 12 are really proud of
>>>>> their ability to read Kreyol and overwhelmingly they want to learn
>>>>> English and Spanish. I think generally these younger children
>>>>> understand Spanish and English better than they do French.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I first visited Haiti about 8 years ago, I identified 55
>>>>> books
>>>>> in Kreyol at that time. I think the universe of titles may be
>>>>> close
>>>>> to 400 now - maybe double that if you include pamphlets, tracts,
>>>>> and
>>>>> brochures.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Rigdon
>>>>> www.ngohaiti.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- End message from jrigdon at researchonline.net -----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Olpc-haiti mailing list
>>>> Olpc-haiti at lists.laptop.org
>>>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-haiti
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ----- End message from carminablaise at gmail.com -----
>>
>>
>
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