[Olpc-Haiti] our Haiti translation site's now in English+ French + on Facebook too!

Carmina Mevs carminamevs at gmail.com
Wed Feb 3 09:29:41 EST 2010 

Thank you all for your responses,
it gave me a few more avenues to explore.
Very enlightening discussion!
Mark, can't wait to hear more from you :-)
Thanks
Carmina

&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*
Do you speak Creole?
Haiti needs your help!
Can you Help?
www.raisehaitiup.com
&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*


On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 7:46 AM, Mark Tomizawa <m at smash.com> wrote:

> Michel et al,
>
> Community people who are fluent (spoken, written) are ready to help by
> serving as translators. They live in Somerville, Dorchester and Greater
> Boston. Many have relatives back in Haiti. Who should they speak with?
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2010, at 12:36 AM, Michel DeGraff wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Carmina et al,
> >
> > Thank you for sharing your own experience with us vis-à-vis Kreyòl
> > writing.
> >
> > When it comes to the education of Kreyòl speaking children, my own
> > belief is that a (substantially) imperfect Kreyòl translation will do
> > more harm than good.  In my view, the XO, like any computer, is a
> > _tool_, not an end.   The quality of the materials that are installed on
> > the XO is key to its success as a tool. And we certainly do not want our
> > children to be using an instrument that uses an imperfect version of
> > their language---a language that has long been stigmatized out of "class
> > bias," to use John Rigdon's term.  And the socio-political message would
> > be problematic as well: it would be as if Kreyòl-speaking children do
> > not "deserve" the same quality of materials as children speaking
> > English, French, Spanish, etc.
> >
> > One unfortunate fact is that the social history of Kreyòl, steeped in
> > (neo-)colonialism and slavery, is very different from that of English,
> > French, Spanish, and so on.  And the predicament of Kreyòl speakers who
> > cannot write Kreyòl is one consequence of that history, and we do need
> > to take this history into account in planning educational projects for
> > Haiti.  But Kreyòl also has its strengths (e.g., in its uniform
> > spelling system) which can be an asset for technology design---for
> > example, text-to-speech software like "Speak" on the XO.
> >
> > Another good news is that there do exist professional Kreyòl
> > translators.  For example:
> >
> > http://creoletrans.com/
> >
> > I hope this helps,
> >
> >                                -michel.
> > _____________________________________________________________________
> > MIT Linguistics & Philosophy  77 Massachusetts Ave Cambridge MA 02139
> > degraff at MIT.EDU http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/people/faculty/degraff
> > _____________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Message from carminablaise at gmail.com ---------
> >   Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 23:47:02 -0500
> >   From: Carmina Blaise <carminablaise at gmail.com>
> > Reply-To: Carmina Blaise <carminablaise at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Olpc-Haiti] our Haiti translation site's now in English+
> > French  + on Facebook too!
> >     To: Michel DeGraff <degraff at mit.edu>
> >
> >
> >> Michel, John,
> >>
> >> This conversation rings so true to me being one of the Haitians who
> speak
> >> but not write Kreyol.
> >> It also explains the reticence or what I perceived as a lack of
> enthusiasm
> >> from my peers when trying to recruit volunteer translators.
> >>
> >> It's not because my Haitian brothers and sisters don't care, but because
> >> like me, I suppose that they are intimidated by the task at hand
> >> and maybe even embarrassed to admit that they can not write Kreyol.
> >>
> >> Your idea of paying "professional" Kreyol translators is an interesting
> one
> >> with many positive ramifications
> >>
> >> But the problem as I see it is where do we find "professional" Kreyol
> >> translators?
> >>
> >> Is an imperfect Kreyol translation worse than no translation?
> >>
> >> Looking forward to hearing your suggestions
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Carmina
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> &*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*
> >> Do you speak Creole?
> >> Haiti needs your help!
> >> Can you Help?
> >> www.raisehaitiup.com
> >> &*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Michel DeGraff <degraff at mit.edu>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> John,
> >>>
> >>> I agree with your comment re:
> >>>
> >>> > It has been my experience that most Haitian adults in the diaspora do
> >>> > not read Kreyol well, although they speak it because they were
> >>> > essentially educated in French before
> >>> > leaving Haiti.
> >>>
> >>> And they often write it even less well.  And this is not their fault:
> as
> >>> you point out, most educated Haitian adults above certain age were
> never
> >>> trained to write in Kreyòl.   These issues need to be kept in mind as
> >>> "volunteers" from the diaspora are being enlisted to translate
> >>> interface, software and courseware that are meant to Kreyòl-speaking
> >>> children.
> >>>
> >>> This is a point I've stressed many times to OLPC folks, but it has
> often
> >>> fallen on (apparently) deaf ears: translation should be taken as a
> >>> serious professional activity on a par with the sort of activities that
> >>> OLPC employees and consultants (in Haiti and elsewhere) routinely get
> >>> paid for.  I think we have to closely monitor the quality of Kreyòl
> >>> translation, especially when it comes to languages like Haitian Creole
> >>> that, for too long, have been dismissed as "broken languages" by too
> >>> many (though not all) French-speaking Haitians.  Of course, this is
> >>> related to the "class bias" that you mention in your email---a class
> >>> bias with deeply entrenched historical and socio-economic roots.
> >>>
> >>> Kreyòl pale, kreyòl konprann...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>                                -michel.
> >>> _____________________________________________________________________
> >>> MIT Linguistics & Philosophy  77 Massachusetts Ave Cambridge MA 02139
> >>> degraff at MIT.EDU http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/people/faculty/degraff
> >>> _____________________________________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Message from jrigdon at researchonline.net ---------
> >>>   Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:08:28 -0500
> >>>   From: John Rigdon <jrigdon at researchonline.net>
> >>> Reply-To: John Rigdon <jrigdon at researchonline.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Olpc-Haiti] our Haiti translation site's now in English+
> >>> French + on Facebook too!
> >>>      To: Michel DeGraff <degraff at mit.edu>, Samuel Klein
> >>> <meta.sj at gmail.com>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Thank you for the clarification Michel.
> >>> >
> >>> > It has been my experience that most Haitian adults in the diaspora do
> >>> > not read Kreyol well, although they speak it because they were
> >>> > essentially educated in French before leaving Haiti.
> >>> >
> >>> > It is only those under the age of about 25 who both read and speak
> >>> Kreyol.
> >>> >
> >>> > It has been my experience in visiting Haiti over the last few years
> >>> > that the majority of the schools are still being taught in French,
> >>> > and there is  a strong "class" bias to try to learn French and
> >>> > demonstrate profiency.  I hope I'm not being offensive here.  I
> >>> > really don't mean to be.
> >>> >
> >>> > Happily the young children under about age 12 are really proud of
> >>> > their ability to read Kreyol and overwhelmingly they want to learn
> >>> > English and Spanish.  I think generally these younger children
> >>> > understand Spanish and English better than they do French.
> >>> >
> >>> > When I first visited Haiti about 8 years ago, I identified 55 books
> >>> > in Kreyol at that time.  I think the universe of titles may be close
> >>> > to 400 now - maybe double that if you include pamphlets, tracts, and
> >>> > brochures.
> >>> >
> >>> > John Rigdon
> >>> > www.ngohaiti.com
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- End message from jrigdon at researchonline.net -----
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Olpc-haiti mailing list
> >>> Olpc-haiti at lists.laptop.org
> >>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-haiti
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ----- End message from carminablaise at gmail.com -----
> >
> >
>
>
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