[OLPC Bolivia] [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

Lun Feb 7 11:32:40 EST 2011

Thank you for humoring me.  I stand corrected.  I havenâ€™t read Davidâ€™s thesis.  Just downloaded it.  Thanks for the suggestion.

Ron

From: Alan Kay [mailto:alan.nemo en yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 11:21 AM
To: Ron Teitelbaum; Chunka Mui
Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes; squeakland.org mailing list; america-latina en squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa; Maho 2010; olpc bolivia; IAEP SugarLabs; OLPC Puno
Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

Hi Ron,

I've already played this game ad nauseum with many groups on the web. So I urge everyone to rise above the temptation to name your favorite idea that seems "new".

But do you really think there were no peer to peer and cloud computing systems already deployed before 1980? (Hint: I used both quite a lot back then, and for a short time actually was in charge of an ARPA task group to define an AI "cloud resource" for the already running ARPAnet -- the one that got built was a multiple processor system (C.mmp) designed by Gordon Bell)

For much larger issues and inventions than DHT, let me refer you to the 1978 PhD thesis of David Reed (popularly known as "the '/' in TCP/IP") at MIT.1978. If you haven't heard of David or read this thesis, then this helps make my main point.

Since it would be really improbable for me to be aware of all developments after 1980 (and even some before), I don't claim there have been none. 

I simply asked for 3 (or even one) since 1980 comparable to personal computing, GUIs, the Internet, Engelbart's notion of "online system", etc. Previous essays into this yielded many suggestions, but I was able to identify prior art for all such.

For example, Tim Berners-Lee was suitably embarrassed when he found out about Engelbart - first for the web not doing as well in the design, goals and execution, and secondly, because as a physicist he would have been drummed out of Physics if he had not tried to "stand on the shoulders of giants" (as Newton said), and he had assumed falsely (and I think partly because our field is so careless about its historical great steps up) that computing had no Netwons, and the Internet had somehow just appeared without thought out purposes, and he failed to look for them.

Best wishes,

Alan

  _____  

From: Ron Teitelbaum <horont en earthlink.net>
To: Alan Kay <alan.nemo en yahoo.com>; Chunka Mui <chunka en cornerloft.com>
Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes <olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org>; squeakland.org mailing list <squeakland en squeakland.org>; america-latina en squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa <carnen en mac.com>; Maho 2010 <maho en realness.org>; olpc bolivia <olpc-bolivia en lists.laptop.org>; IAEP SugarLabs <iaep en lists.sugarlabs.org>; OLPC Puno <olpcpuno en gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 7:28:18 AM
Subject: RE: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

Hi Alan,

One thing that comes to mind right away is DHT research.  I could be wrong but it seems to me that the 90â€™ saw the birth of DHT, P2P and Cloud Computing.

Ron Teitelbaum

From: squeakland-bounces en squeakland.org [mailto:squeakland-bounces en squeakland.org] On Behalf Of Alan Kay
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 2:12 PM
To: Chunka Mui
Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes; squeakland.org mailing list; america-latina en squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa; Maho 2010; olpc bolivia; IAEP SugarLabs; OLPC Puno
Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

Hi Chunka,

I've been challenged on this point more than once, and have challenged back to come up with one invention that was done after 1980 that matches up to the top 10 done before 1980. 

This has not happened. I've been able to show the prior art for all suggestions.

Essentially everything in the last 30 years has been commercializations and other forms of "innovation" based on what was funded by ARPA, ONR, and by extension, Xerox in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

The important point here is that there are many new inventions needed, and they can be identified, but no one has been willing to fund them. It's not that the early birds got the worms, but that most of the needed worms out there are being missed.

Cheers,

Alan

  _____  

From: Chunka Mui <chunka en cornerloft.com>
To: Alan Kay <alan.nemo en yahoo.com>
Cc: Carlos Rabassa <carnen en mac.com>; "america-latina en squeakland.org" <america-latina en squeakland.org>; squeakland.org mailing list <squeakland en squeakland.org>; Maho 2010 <maho en realness.org>; IAEP SugarLabs <iaep en lists.sugarlabs.org>; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes <olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org>; olpc bolivia <olpc-bolivia en lists.laptop.org>; OLPC Puno <olpcpuno en gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:53:44 AM
Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

On Jan 30, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Alan Kay <alan.nemo en yahoo.com> wrote:

GE is being congratulated for recognizing that the iPhone and iPad are pretty good ideas and technological realizations. But isn't this like the congratulations Bill Gates got for finally recognizing the Internet (about 25 years after it had started working)?

Seems as though Apple had a lot more on the ball than Bill Gates or GE here (they used to do computing in the 60s, but couldn't see what it was).

And most of the ideas at Apple (and for personal computing and the Internet) came from research funding that no company or government has been willing to do since 1982.

Alan -- Could you say more about this point?  Surely there's been tons of CS and IT funding since '82, both govt funding to universities and massive research budgets at msft, hp, 

Regards,

Chunka

Cheers,

Alan

  _____  

From: Carlos Rabassa <carnen en mac.com>
To: america-latina en squeakland.org; squeakland.org mailing list <squeakland en squeakland.org>; Maho 2010 <maho en realness.org>; IAEP SugarLabs <iaep en lists.sugarlabs.org>; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes <olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org>; olpc bolivia <olpc-bolivia en lists.laptop.org>; OLPC Puno <olpcpuno en gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 4:11:49 AM
Subject: [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

We try to learn from those who have succeed for a long time:

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1XWm2q8nQ-l5KUJ_PWkQruLDx-nZ7nsKDfg4idDlsU50

Carlos Rabassa
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IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP en lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

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