[Localization] aymara quechua

Sat Apr 5 12:35:57 EDT 2008

Aymara & Quechua: Long live to those so noble languages!
(there are ignorants that say that these are "dead" languages just 
because they add some spanish words to their original aymara or quechua 
language... spanish add words from the french, from german, from 
english, from latin...  that is natural! 5 million people speak Quechua 
in Peru! ... all the blood of the royal inca houses is spread inside all 
the noble royal houses in Europe... some of the fathers of the 
Independence in U.S. have inca blood in his blood too... the spanish 
royalty (today, there and now) is FULL of inca blood... we can trace 
back the line from the last Incas (circa 1532) until today (2008) in the 
blood of Antonio de Orellana, Marques de la Conquista that is a very 
rich and known person in Spain in these days).

Sorry... this is not related to "OLPC"!!!!!!!!!! (smile)... I start 
dancing and change the "MAMBO" without noticing (... I must go to bed!...)

Javier
Lima, Peru

Yama Ploskonka wrote:
> Javier, estoy copiando tu nota para Runasimi, un grupo que comenzó 
> trabajando con quechua y ahora también le da al aymará.  Mi interés 
> por aymará se relaciona con el hecho que yo lo soy tal vez en un 20% 
> <8-) y mi plan es de trabajar en la zona aymarista de Bolivia (La Paz, 
> El Alto, la zona del Lago) tan pronto logre financiar el proyecto.  En 
> ese área aymará es dominante en más de 95%, a un total de bastante más 
> de un millón de personas, más la gente del lado peruano, que 
> probablemente, si lo nuestro se activa, será más fácil de atender 
> desde El Alto que desde Lima.
>
> Un personero de Brightstar me ha dicho que hay OLPC en Bolivia, pero 
> no he tenido éxito en contactarlos todavía.
>
> En todo caso, espero que te comuniques con la buena gente de Runasimi, 
> hay varios quechuistas ahí.
>
> ¡Gracias por tu buen ánimo!
>
> Yamandú
>
> @Amos, how can we get these people signed in?  I forgot the 
> procedure... Thanks
>
> info at olpc-peru.info wrote:
>> English > Spanish > Aymara ?????
>>
>> I don't know what you are doing with Aymara.  But Quechua is more 
>> "important" (numerically!!!)
>> than Aymara language: 80% of the Peruvian Indian Population speaks 
>> some sort of Quechua.
>> Aymara is only spoken in some part of "Puno" region (and in many 
>> places in Bolivia... I don't know
>> if there is a OLPC project in Bolivia... but for Peru the first 
>> "extra language" is Quechua (in its
>> four variations)... then Aymara.
>>
>> But... if you like Aymara!!! Let's do the Aymara thing! (smile).
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Javier Rodriguez
>> Lima, Peru
>>
>>
>> Yama Ploskonka wrote:
>>> I second this. By mistake I had sent a similar message to someone in 
>>> the list, but not to the list, a few week back.  the thread was
>>> Re: [Localization] Problem: 2 translations for 1 string
>>>
>>> I am no expert in OLPC msgid or .po files and am still trying to 
>>> figure poodle out in the cascading language problem (English -> 
>>> Spanish -> Aymara) where any such problems could very easily become 
>>> silly, especially if it happens in the hinge language.
>>>
>>> One concept I have been toying with is that msgid be referred to 
>>> with an univocal referent, like a database pointer, not with an 
>>> English phrase.
>>> The pointers would point to the English phrase in a similar 
>>> structure that they would point to any language phrase in any language.
>>> ex.gr., BS07.en would be 'copy' and BS07.de would be 'Kopieren' and 
>>> BS07.es 'copiar'.  There would be another instance of 'copy' that 
>>> would be BS68.en, with a BS68.de translation as 'kopiere dich', and 
>>> as many instances as actual phrases happen in each context in the 
>>> software, even if apparently they are the same in English.  
>>> Reference pointer would be a number, or a construct that indicates 
>>> package, class name, etc, in the software, and as add-on extension 
>>> during execution (?) the language code.  Thus very little data could 
>>> hold enormous amount of different possible languages.
>>>
>>> That would not solve all problems, since English IS the default 
>>> development language, yet English is somewhat poor in declensions 
>>> and all those funny endings that bring so much joy to many other 
>>> languages (Aymara is ripe with that) thus at the development stage 
>>> it might not be noticed that a given term has to be contextualized.  
>>> Also, still the translator needs to know what sort of context the 
>>> term is used in, which is not necessarily evident.
>>>
>>> I do not know if this is even feasible at this stage of the game.  
>>> While it would make all sort of localization issues much easier, it 
>>> would require a deep-down digging into the code.
>>>
>>> In the long term it would be more than worth it, since maintenance 
>>> and further translations would bypass this kind of issues.
>>>
>>> Yama
>>>
>>> Kent Loobey wrote:
>>>  
>>>> On Friday 04 April 2008 2:09:57 am you wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 3:17 AM, Kent Loobey <kent at uoregon.edu> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>> I was thinking about code documentation this morning.  If the 
>>>>>> code is
>>>>>> supposed to be readable all over the world then how does the 
>>>>>> comments
>>>>>> within the code get translated?
>>>>>>         
>>>>>    I thought same thing.  Source text is just text, I don't think we
>>>>> want to embed comments for each language in same place (quite
>>>>> difficult to read!)....   Traditional code editing tools don't fit
>>>>> well here.  Any clue?
>>>>>       
>>>> I considered putting a number with each comment and then in a 
>>>> separate file putting a description for each number.  However I 
>>>> think it would be better if the translated descriptions are 
>>>> inserted directly into the code where they apply.
>>>>
>>>> A localization pre-processor might be run to insert translated text 
>>>> into the activity/program.  I haven't done this myself but I know 
>>>> there are commenting techniques that allow text to be pulled from 
>>>> programs to create a form of rudimentary documentation.  Maybe we 
>>>> could do something along those lines and then reverse the process 
>>>> and insert the translated text back into the program.  Maybe only 
>>>> """ commented text """ text would be translated.
>>>>
>>>> Helping kids learn how to program is no different to me then 
>>>> facilitating their learning anything else.
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>>    Besides comments in code, we understand code by name of class,
>>>>> data, method.  Good code have good names showing meaning clearly and
>>>>> that doesn't need much comment.
>>>>>       
>>>> I have been programming for a long long ... long long time.  I have 
>>>> not however programmed in Python before.  Python code by itself is 
>>>> not self explanatory.  So I don't believe that someone who has 
>>>> never programmed before could look at a Python program even with 
>>>> excellent class names and def names could figure out how it works.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that the constructs of a program are really just tags and 
>>>> don't make much difference what language they are in, i.e., a loop 
>>>> by any other name still just loops.  Knowing why the loop is there 
>>>> is important to understanding what the program is doing and that 
>>>> takes language.
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>>    I think those are usually named in English if the code is indented
>>>>> to be used globally.  So English skill might be needed anyway to
>>>>> understand the code very well ...
>>>>>
>>>>> /Korakurider
>>>>>       
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>>>   
>>
>>
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