[Localization] aymara quechua

Sat Apr 5 10:27:17 EDT 2008

Javier, estoy copiando tu nota para Runasimi, un grupo que comenzó 
trabajando con quechua y ahora también le da al aymará.  Mi interés por 
aymará se relaciona con el hecho que yo lo soy tal vez en un 20% <8-) y 
mi plan es de trabajar en la zona aymarista de Bolivia (La Paz, El Alto, 
la zona del Lago) tan pronto logre financiar el proyecto.  En ese área 
aymará es dominante en más de 95%, a un total de bastante más de un 
millón de personas, más la gente del lado peruano, que probablemente, si 
lo nuestro se activa, será más fácil de atender desde El Alto que desde 
Lima.

Un personero de Brightstar me ha dicho que hay OLPC en Bolivia, pero no 
he tenido éxito en contactarlos todavía.

En todo caso, espero que te comuniques con la buena gente de Runasimi, 
hay varios quechuistas ahí.

¡Gracias por tu buen ánimo!

Yamandú

@Amos, how can we get these people signed in?  I forgot the procedure... 
Thanks

info at olpc-peru.info wrote:
> English > Spanish > Aymara ?????
> 
> I don't know what you are doing with Aymara.  But Quechua is more 
> "important" (numerically!!!)
> than Aymara language: 80% of the Peruvian Indian Population speaks some 
> sort of Quechua.
> Aymara is only spoken in some part of "Puno" region (and in many places 
> in Bolivia... I don't know
> if there is a OLPC project in Bolivia... but for Peru the first "extra 
> language" is Quechua (in its
> four variations)... then Aymara.
> 
> But... if you like Aymara!!! Let's do the Aymara thing! (smile).
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Javier Rodriguez
> Lima, Peru
> 
> 
> Yama Ploskonka wrote:
>> I second this. By mistake I had sent a similar message to someone in 
>> the list, but not to the list, a few week back.  the thread was
>> Re: [Localization] Problem: 2 translations for 1 string
>>
>> I am no expert in OLPC msgid or .po files and am still trying to 
>> figure poodle out in the cascading language problem (English -> 
>> Spanish -> Aymara) where any such problems could very easily become 
>> silly, especially if it happens in the hinge language.
>>
>> One concept I have been toying with is that msgid be referred to with 
>> an univocal referent, like a database pointer, not with an English 
>> phrase.
>> The pointers would point to the English phrase in a similar structure 
>> that they would point to any language phrase in any language.
>> ex.gr., BS07.en would be 'copy' and BS07.de would be 'Kopieren' and 
>> BS07.es 'copiar'.  There would be another instance of 'copy' that 
>> would be BS68.en, with a BS68.de translation as 'kopiere dich', and as 
>> many instances as actual phrases happen in each context in the 
>> software, even if apparently they are the same in English.  Reference 
>> pointer would be a number, or a construct that indicates package, 
>> class name, etc, in the software, and as add-on extension during 
>> execution (?) the language code.  Thus very little data could hold 
>> enormous amount of different possible languages.
>>
>> That would not solve all problems, since English IS the default 
>> development language, yet English is somewhat poor in declensions and 
>> all those funny endings that bring so much joy to many other languages 
>> (Aymara is ripe with that) thus at the development stage it might not 
>> be noticed that a given term has to be contextualized.  Also, still 
>> the translator needs to know what sort of context the term is used in, 
>> which is not necessarily evident.
>>
>> I do not know if this is even feasible at this stage of the game.  
>> While it would make all sort of localization issues much easier, it 
>> would require a deep-down digging into the code.
>>
>> In the long term it would be more than worth it, since maintenance and 
>> further translations would bypass this kind of issues.
>>
>> Yama
>>
>> Kent Loobey wrote:
>>  
>>> On Friday 04 April 2008 2:09:57 am you wrote:
>>>    
>>>> On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 3:17 AM, Kent Loobey <kent at uoregon.edu> wrote:
>>>>      
>>>>> I was thinking about code documentation this morning.  If the code is
>>>>> supposed to be readable all over the world then how does the comments
>>>>> within the code get translated?
>>>>>         
>>>>    I thought same thing.  Source text is just text, I don't think we
>>>> want to embed comments for each language in same place (quite
>>>> difficult to read!)....   Traditional code editing tools don't fit
>>>> well here.  Any clue?
>>>>       
>>> I considered putting a number with each comment and then in a 
>>> separate file putting a description for each number.  However I think 
>>> it would be better if the translated descriptions are inserted 
>>> directly into the code where they apply.
>>>
>>> A localization pre-processor might be run to insert translated text 
>>> into the activity/program.  I haven't done this myself but I know 
>>> there are commenting techniques that allow text to be pulled from 
>>> programs to create a form of rudimentary documentation.  Maybe we 
>>> could do something along those lines and then reverse the process and 
>>> insert the translated text back into the program.  Maybe only """ 
>>> commented text """ text would be translated.
>>>
>>> Helping kids learn how to program is no different to me then 
>>> facilitating their learning anything else.
>>>
>>>    
>>>>    Besides comments in code, we understand code by name of class,
>>>> data, method.  Good code have good names showing meaning clearly and
>>>> that doesn't need much comment.
>>>>       
>>> I have been programming for a long long ... long long time.  I have 
>>> not however programmed in Python before.  Python code by itself is 
>>> not self explanatory.  So I don't believe that someone who has never 
>>> programmed before could look at a Python program even with excellent 
>>> class names and def names could figure out how it works.
>>>
>>> I agree that the constructs of a program are really just tags and 
>>> don't make much difference what language they are in, i.e., a loop by 
>>> any other name still just loops.  Knowing why the loop is there is 
>>> important to understanding what the program is doing and that takes 
>>> language.
>>>
>>>    
>>>>    I think those are usually named in English if the code is indented
>>>> to be used globally.  So English skill might be needed anyway to
>>>> understand the code very well ...
>>>>
>>>> /Korakurider
>>>>       
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>>   
> 
> 