[OLPC India] India Digest, Vol 22, Issue 23

Mon Sep 22 14:48:14 EDT 2008

I agree. Not only who pays, but works out on where these should go to, and
why. Remember India has over 20 states, and over the same number of
languages, by the 8th schedule, ie ' recognised' languages, and hundreds
clamouring to be ' recognised' know pejoratively as ' dialects'!

Ananya S Guha.

On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 12:06 AM, Usha Gowri <usha.gowri at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>> Marc is right: I think we have to evolve a system quick.We have been
>> talking in circles for long and everyone's patience is wearing thin.
>
> If you are going to manufacture 50000 as a lot-good
> How many real orders do you have in hand?I mean real ones-because this is
> India where we all queue up and then decide that the XO is exactly what I
> don't want to spend money on.
> Who looks at the prioritizing of the requirements?
> Who pays  for the 1000 XO's?-the school?
> And a thousand?!!! really?
> Teacher  training?
> A good one is to have a distributor network and as someone who  worked in
> the villages marketing products I can show you a very workable fantastic
> system
> So with teacher training
> Rgds
> G
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> -
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >  > I am not so convinced with this "formula". Whoever ends up making the
>> > > decision about XO's let them decide where the XOs go. My family is
>> > > from UP and I grew up in Hyderabad, so I see the disparity you point
>> > > out to, but the metric for deciding where the XOs go and get
>> > > implemented is subject to many other variables than north and south.
>> > > What about Orissa? West Bengal? Assam, Rajasthan? No love for them?
>> >
>> > I absolutely agree with you that the problem is complex, more complex
>> > than north and south, villages and cities, ...
>> > A system like LDC internal to India could be a solution. But I was not
>> > thinking about an indian G1G1 only, I was thinking also about direct
>> > orders done by local governments or companies, etc. I just wanted to
>> > bring the focus on the problem. Who is going to order XO in U.P. and
>> > Bihar ?
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > India mailing list
>> > India at lists.laptop.org
>> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
>> >
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:55:02 +0530
>> From: "Ananya Guha" <nnyguha48 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [OLPC India] India Digest, Vol 22, Issue 19
>> To: "Sameer Verma" <sverma at sfsu.edu>
>> Cc: india at lists.laptop.org
>> Message-ID:
>>        <c639ac150809221025p1928f09av535007397012193d at mail.gmail.com>
>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> In this listserv, if we can focus on how to aggregate to large
>> numbers,
>> > it
>> > >>> will be a great help indeed.
>> > >>
>> > >> Maybe what we need is a simple list or table of people who what small
>> > >> batches of XOs in their school, village, neighborhood etc., organized
>> > >> by location, etc. That way we can combine small batches into a larger
>> > >> order. If 50 schools of 1000 children each speak up, we get 50K. It
>> > >> could very well be a simple form that people fill out with all these
>> > >> details and contact info, potential donors (whether they have any or
>> > >> are seeking, etc).
>> > >>
>> > >> This could even scale worldwide...
>> > >>
>> > >> Thoughts?
>> > >
>> > > I think it must be very exciting to see all the children of a school
>> > > roaming around with XO laptops but I don't see the educative aspect in
>> > > it. First, you need capable and motivated teachers, very difficult to
>> > > find.
>> >
>> > I disagree. First, you need capable and motivated *children* and
>> > that's easier to do than to retrofit a thirty-something teacher with
>> > new thinking.
>> >
>> > > Second, children can easily share the laptops during the day,
>> > > they are not going to spend the whole day using the laptops, isn't it
>> > > ? It depends on the quantity of divisions in the school but with one
>> > > division, 50 laptops are certainly enough so during a class using XO,
>> > > each child can have his own laptop. (That was the source of the
>> > > misunderstanding in a previous message : we have 35 laptops and 50
>> > > would be just perfect).
>> >
>> > I am tempted to say that I find your lack of faith disturbing :-)
>> > (subtle Star Wars humor)
>> >
>> > I've seen children work with the XO. Yes, you need teachers to keep an
>> > eye on things in a classroom, and yes you will need to educate them
>> > about the project and process, but give the children some credit. I
>> > don't know how old you are Marc, but I am willing to bet, the kids are
>> > a lot younger :-) They learn faster and in much better ways than you
>> > and I can. I started KinderGarten with chalk and slate. Why should we
>> > subject the children to chalk and slate if we can bypass it?
>> >
>> > So, kids walking around with XOs is educational? I think so. Every
>> > time they learn that multiplication is addition done several times
>> > using Pippy, they learn. I didn't learn that until 11th grade (not
>> > very sharp, was I?) when I learned to write BASIC programs. Why?
>> > Because the nuns at my convent school never bothered to teach me. They
>> > surely did a good job of beating it into me (all the way up to tables
>> > of 14), but that's another story. See more at
>> > http://sameerverma.org/blog/?postid=164
>> >
>> > > If you consider the budget aspect only : 1000 laptops means $200,000
>> > > only for the hardware. You still have to count the training and the
>> > > maintenance. It is a very big amount, too big for a 1000 children's
>> > > school.
>> >
>> > Yes, that number is true. In fact, if you look at Habib Khan's
>> > spreadsheet, you'll see what some of the real costs are.
>> >
>> >
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:OLPC_Cost_Simulation_Model_for_South_Asian_Countries_by_Habib.xls
>> >
>> > We have to be realistic. The idea isn't doing this cheap. The idea is
>> > to get someone who *can afford it* to pay for it. The XO costs are
>> > still less than $350 or so for an ASUS EEE PC. All other costs will
>> > remain the same, if not increase.
>> >
>> > > I know donations can come from abroad but local people will
>> > > feel you mis the point, the main problem in India is the lack of
>> > > infrastructures
>> >
>> > Lack of infrastructure can be bypassed or circumvented by the XOs
>> > bringing their own infrastructure with them. If we wait to build the
>> > infrastructure, that might be another ten years gone by.
>> >
>> > > and the poor attendance of the teachers and the
>> > > students.
>> >
>> > I believe this has improved dramatically once the children have a
>> > reason to be there. In Bhagmalpur
>> > (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_India/Bhagmalpur), the school has a
>> > near 100% attendance. The real reason? Free mid-day meal from the UP
>> > government. Post lunch, the school looks empty and the kids raid the
>> > village backyards and gardens in search of mischief.
>> >
>> > I don't intend to discount your opinion in any way. After all, you
>> > have a school of 35 XOs. Your input is valuable. We are all on the
>> > same team here. At least, I hope so. However, some of the thinking
>> > with this project is incredibly disruptive, and will require us to
>> > think in disruptive ways. Otherwise, the XO Speak will dictate "Two
>> > one za two..." and the children will repeat.
>> >
>> > Sameer
>> > --
>> > Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
>> > Associate Professor of Information Systems
>> > San Francisco State University
>> > San Francisco CA 94132 USA
>> > http://verma.sfsu.edu/
>> > http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >  India mailing list
>> > India at lists.laptop.org
>> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:58:15 -0500
>> From: "Sameer Verma" <sverma at sfsu.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [OLPC India] India Digest, Vol 22, Issue 19
>> To: "Ananya Guha" <nnyguha48 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: india at lists.laptop.org
>> Message-ID:
>>        <5fb387c70809221058i486013bfsc5c7a3fdb7efa4f5 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Ananya Guha <nnyguha48 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I think Marc's basic question has not been answered.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > A.S.Guha.
>>
>>
>> And what is that basic question?
>>
>> Sameer
>>
>> > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Marc Valentin
>> >> <mvalentin at oeuvredespains.org> wrote:
>> >> > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu>
>> wrote:
>> >> >> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Satish Jha <sjha at vsnl.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> I am overwhelmed by the kind of support this project is receiving
>> from
>> >> >>> everyone.. from individuals to institutions and corporations and
>> >> >>> governments.. they have all been trying to do their best..
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> My corporate relations adviser informs me that an airline has
>> agreed
>> >> >>> to give
>> >> >>> a number of free tickets for the staff, a business house is willing
>> to
>> >> >>> offer
>> >> >>> office space and support for all the schools it runs and the
>> children
>> >> >>> they
>> >> >>> have run up in six figures and so on..
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> However, our goal is to reach out to those who cannot help
>> >> >>> themselves.. And
>> >> >>> our efforts are focused primarily in that direction.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> While individual initiatives greatly contribute to the cause,
>> >> >>> aggregating
>> >> >>> them in an organized way may get a lot more out of them.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> We should also keep in mind that our production batch size is
>> 50,000
>> >> >>> at one
>> >> >>> time and unless we can scale up, the program will have different
>> kind
>> >> >>> of
>> >> >>> management challenges.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> In this listserv, if we can focus on how to aggregate to large
>> >> >>> numbers, it
>> >> >>> will be a great help indeed.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Maybe what we need is a simple list or table of people who what
>> small
>> >> >> batches of XOs in their school, village, neighborhood etc.,
>> organized
>> >> >> by location, etc. That way we can combine small batches into a
>> larger
>> >> >> order. If 50 schools of 1000 children each speak up, we get 50K. It
>> >> >> could very well be a simple form that people fill out with all these
>> >> >> details and contact info, potential donors (whether they have any or
>> >> >> are seeking, etc).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This could even scale worldwide...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thoughts?
>> >> >
>> >> > I think it must be very exciting to see all the children of a school
>> >> > roaming around with XO laptops but I don't see the educative aspect
>> in
>> >> > it. First, you need capable and motivated teachers, very difficult to
>> >> > find.
>> >>
>> >> I disagree. First, you need capable and motivated *children* and
>> >> that's easier to do than to retrofit a thirty-something teacher with
>> >> new thinking.
>> >>
>> >> > Second, children can easily share the laptops during the day,
>> >> > they are not going to spend the whole day using the laptops, isn't it
>> >> > ? It depends on the quantity of divisions in the school but with one
>> >> > division, 50 laptops are certainly enough so during a class using XO,
>> >> > each child can have his own laptop. (That was the source of the
>> >> > misunderstanding in a previous message : we have 35 laptops and 50
>> >> > would be just perfect).
>> >>
>> >> I am tempted to say that I find your lack of faith disturbing :-)
>> >> (subtle Star Wars humor)
>> >>
>> >> I've seen children work with the XO. Yes, you need teachers to keep an
>> >> eye on things in a classroom, and yes you will need to educate them
>> >> about the project and process, but give the children some credit. I
>> >> don't know how old you are Marc, but I am willing to bet, the kids are
>> >> a lot younger :-) They learn faster and in much better ways than you
>> >> and I can. I started KinderGarten with chalk and slate. Why should we
>> >> subject the children to chalk and slate if we can bypass it?
>> >>
>> >> So, kids walking around with XOs is educational? I think so. Every
>> >> time they learn that multiplication is addition done several times
>> >> using Pippy, they learn. I didn't learn that until 11th grade (not
>> >> very sharp, was I?) when I learned to write BASIC programs. Why?
>> >> Because the nuns at my convent school never bothered to teach me. They
>> >> surely did a good job of beating it into me (all the way up to tables
>> >> of 14), but that's another story. See more at
>> >> http://sameerverma.org/blog/?postid=164
>> >>
>> >> > If you consider the budget aspect only : 1000 laptops means $200,000
>> >> > only for the hardware. You still have to count the training and the
>> >> > maintenance. It is a very big amount, too big for a 1000 children's
>> >> > school.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, that number is true. In fact, if you look at Habib Khan's
>> >> spreadsheet, you'll see what some of the real costs are.
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:OLPC_Cost_Simulation_Model_for_South_Asian_Countries_by_Habib.xls
>> >>
>> >> We have to be realistic. The idea isn't doing this cheap. The idea is
>> >> to get someone who *can afford it* to pay for it. The XO costs are
>> >> still less than $350 or so for an ASUS EEE PC. All other costs will
>> >> remain the same, if not increase.
>> >>
>> >> > I know donations can come from abroad but local people will
>> >> > feel you mis the point, the main problem in India is the lack of
>> >> > infrastructures
>> >>
>> >> Lack of infrastructure can be bypassed or circumvented by the XOs
>> >> bringing their own infrastructure with them. If we wait to build the
>> >> infrastructure, that might be another ten years gone by.
>> >>
>> >> > and the poor attendance of the teachers and the
>> >> > students.
>> >>
>> >> I believe this has improved dramatically once the children have a
>> >> reason to be there. In Bhagmalpur
>> >> (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_India/Bhagmalpur), the school has a
>> >> near 100% attendance. The real reason? Free mid-day meal from the UP
>> >> government. Post lunch, the school looks empty and the kids raid the
>> >> village backyards and gardens in search of mischief.
>> >>
>> >> I don't intend to discount your opinion in any way. After all, you
>> >> have a school of 35 XOs. Your input is valuable. We are all on the
>> >> same team here. At least, I hope so. However, some of the thinking
>> >> with this project is incredibly disruptive, and will require us to
>> >> think in disruptive ways. Otherwise, the XO Speak will dictate "Two
>> >> one za two..." and the children will repeat.
>> >>
>> >> Sameer
>> >> --
>> >> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
>> >> Associate Professor of Information Systems
>> >> San Francisco State University
>> >> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
>> >> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
>> >> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> India mailing list
>> >> India at lists.laptop.org
>> >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:20:19 -0700
>> From: "Edward Cherlin" <echerlin at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [OLPC India] India Digest, Vol 22, Issue 19
>> To: Asksst at aol.com
>> Cc: iaep <iaep at lists.sugarlabs.org>, india at lists.laptop.org
>> Message-ID:
>>        <e574f6eb0809221120t73387f22uead76e370c8ce778 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 10:29 AM,  <Asksst at aol.com> wrote:
>> > Ankur,
>> > We are planning to use XO laptops with Windows at a girls school in
>> rural
>> > area near Kanpur.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Is that Windows-only, or dual-boot?
>>
>> > I'm located in New York. Can you help? We can talk on
>> > phone if you are in US or Skype.
>> >
>> > Thanks .......... Sheel Thakur
>> > REad foundation
>> > (914-428-0960)
>> > In a message dated 9/21/2008 12:00:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> > india-request at lists.laptop.org writes:
>> >
>> > Send India mailing list submissions to
>> >     india at lists.laptop.org
>> >
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >     http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >     india-request at lists.laptop.org
>> >
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >     india-owner at lists.laptop.org
>> >
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of India digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> >    1. Connectivity aspects of XO (Ankur Verma)
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 20:12:31 +0530
>> > From: "Ankur Verma" <ankur at laptop.org>
>> > Subject: [OLPC India] Connectivity aspects of XO
>> > To: olpc <india at lists.laptop.org>
>> > Cc: seth at laptop.org
>> > Message-ID:
>> >     <4d6328f40809210742l4ea285fm279efdd77aa09ce6 at mail.gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >
>> > I was a summer intern at OLPC, Cambridge where I worked on Internet
>> > Connectivity of XO using modems and cell phones and also integrated SMS
>> > capability to Chat activity on XO.
>> >
>> > I would be interested in helping out in similar work at future
>> deployments
>> > in India.
>> >
>> > Kindly let me know if I can help.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Ankur Verma
>> > -------------- next part --------------
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>> >
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>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > India mailing list
>> > India at lists.laptop.org
>> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
>> >
>> >
>> > End of India Digest, Vol 22, Issue 19
>> > *************************************
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges?
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>> > _______________________________________________
>> > India mailing list
>> > India at lists.laptop.org
>> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Don't panic.--HHGTTG, Douglas Adams
>> fivethirtyeight.com, 3bluedudes.com Obama still ahead in EC!
>> http://www.obamapedia.org/ Join us!
>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai For the children
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> India mailing list
>> India at lists.laptop.org
>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
>>
>>
>> End of India Digest, Vol 22, Issue 23
>> *************************************
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gowri
> VP-Intl Marketing
> www.globalcubeit.com
> http://execdev.blogspot.com/
>
> "The world is full of abundance and opportunity, but >far too many people
> come to the fountain of life with a sieve instead of a tank >car... a
> teaspoon instead of a steam shovel. They expect little and as a result >they
> get little." ~ Ben Sweetland
>
>
> "Everything is either an opportunity to grow or an obstacle to keep you
> from growing. You get to choose."Dr. Wayne Dyer
>
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>
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>
>
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