[OLPC India] India Digest, Vol 22, Issue 23

Mon Sep 22 14:36:17 EDT 2008

>
> Marc is right: I think we have to evolve a system quick.We have been
> talking in circles for long and everyone's patience is wearing thin.

If you are going to manufacture 50000 as a lot-good
How many real orders do you have in hand?I mean real ones-because this is
India where we all queue up and then decide that the XO is exactly what I
don't want to spend money on.
Who looks at the prioritizing of the requirements?
Who pays  for the 1000 XO's?-the school?
And a thousand?!!! really?
Teacher  training?
A good one is to have a distributor network and as someone who  worked in
the villages marketing products I can show you a very workable fantastic
system
So with teacher training
Rgds
G

>
> -
> > wrote:
>
> >  > I am not so convinced with this "formula". Whoever ends up making the
> > > decision about XO's let them decide where the XOs go. My family is
> > > from UP and I grew up in Hyderabad, so I see the disparity you point
> > > out to, but the metric for deciding where the XOs go and get
> > > implemented is subject to many other variables than north and south.
> > > What about Orissa? West Bengal? Assam, Rajasthan? No love for them?
> >
> > I absolutely agree with you that the problem is complex, more complex
> > than north and south, villages and cities, ...
> > A system like LDC internal to India could be a solution. But I was not
> > thinking about an indian G1G1 only, I was thinking also about direct
> > orders done by local governments or companies, etc. I just wanted to
> > bring the focus on the problem. Who is going to order XO in U.P. and
> > Bihar ?
> > _______________________________________________
> > India mailing list
> > India at lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:55:02 +0530
> From: "Ananya Guha" <nnyguha48 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [OLPC India] India Digest, Vol 22, Issue 19
> To: "Sameer Verma" <sverma at sfsu.edu>
> Cc: india at lists.laptop.org
> Message-ID:
>        <c639ac150809221025p1928f09av535007397012193d at mail.gmail.com>
>
> > >>>
> > >>> In this listserv, if we can focus on how to aggregate to large
> numbers,
> > it
> > >>> will be a great help indeed.
> > >>
> > >> Maybe what we need is a simple list or table of people who what small
> > >> batches of XOs in their school, village, neighborhood etc., organized
> > >> by location, etc. That way we can combine small batches into a larger
> > >> order. If 50 schools of 1000 children each speak up, we get 50K. It
> > >> could very well be a simple form that people fill out with all these
> > >> details and contact info, potential donors (whether they have any or
> > >> are seeking, etc).
> > >>
> > >> This could even scale worldwide...
> > >>
> > >> Thoughts?
> > >
> > > I think it must be very exciting to see all the children of a school
> > > roaming around with XO laptops but I don't see the educative aspect in
> > > it. First, you need capable and motivated teachers, very difficult to
> > > find.
> >
> > I disagree. First, you need capable and motivated *children* and
> > that's easier to do than to retrofit a thirty-something teacher with
> > new thinking.
> >
> > > Second, children can easily share the laptops during the day,
> > > they are not going to spend the whole day using the laptops, isn't it
> > > ? It depends on the quantity of divisions in the school but with one
> > > division, 50 laptops are certainly enough so during a class using XO,
> > > each child can have his own laptop. (That was the source of the
> > > misunderstanding in a previous message : we have 35 laptops and 50
> > > would be just perfect).
> >
> > I am tempted to say that I find your lack of faith disturbing :-)
> > (subtle Star Wars humor)
> >
> > I've seen children work with the XO. Yes, you need teachers to keep an
> > eye on things in a classroom, and yes you will need to educate them
> > about the project and process, but give the children some credit. I
> > don't know how old you are Marc, but I am willing to bet, the kids are
> > a lot younger :-) They learn faster and in much better ways than you
> > and I can. I started KinderGarten with chalk and slate. Why should we
> > subject the children to chalk and slate if we can bypass it?
> >
> > So, kids walking around with XOs is educational? I think so. Every
> > time they learn that multiplication is addition done several times
> > using Pippy, they learn. I didn't learn that until 11th grade (not
> > very sharp, was I?) when I learned to write BASIC programs. Why?
> > Because the nuns at my convent school never bothered to teach me. They
> > surely did a good job of beating it into me (all the way up to tables
> > of 14), but that's another story. See more at
> > http://sameerverma.org/blog/?postid=164
> >
> > > If you consider the budget aspect only : 1000 laptops means $200,000
> > > only for the hardware. You still have to count the training and the
> > > maintenance. It is a very big amount, too big for a 1000 children's
> > > school.
> >
> > Yes, that number is true. In fact, if you look at Habib Khan's
> > spreadsheet, you'll see what some of the real costs are.
> >
> >
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:OLPC_Cost_Simulation_Model_for_South_Asian_Countries_by_Habib.xls
> >
> > We have to be realistic. The idea isn't doing this cheap. The idea is
> > to get someone who *can afford it* to pay for it. The XO costs are
> > still less than $350 or so for an ASUS EEE PC. All other costs will
> > remain the same, if not increase.
> >
> > > I know donations can come from abroad but local people will
> > > feel you mis the point, the main problem in India is the lack of
> > > infrastructures
> >
> > Lack of infrastructure can be bypassed or circumvented by the XOs
> > bringing their own infrastructure with them. If we wait to build the
> > infrastructure, that might be another ten years gone by.
> >
> > > and the poor attendance of the teachers and the
> > > students.
> >
> > I believe this has improved dramatically once the children have a
> > reason to be there. In Bhagmalpur
> > (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_India/Bhagmalpur), the school has a
> > near 100% attendance. The real reason? Free mid-day meal from the UP
> > government. Post lunch, the school looks empty and the kids raid the
> > village backyards and gardens in search of mischief.
> >
> > I don't intend to discount your opinion in any way. After all, you
> > have a school of 35 XOs. Your input is valuable. We are all on the
> > same team here. At least, I hope so. However, some of the thinking
> > with this project is incredibly disruptive, and will require us to
> > think in disruptive ways. Otherwise, the XO Speak will dictate "Two
> > one za two..." and the children will repeat.
> >
> > Sameer
> > --
> > Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> > Associate Professor of Information Systems
> > San Francisco State University
> > San Francisco CA 94132 USA
> > http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> > http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
> > _______________________________________________
> >  India mailing list
> > India at lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:58:15 -0500
> From: "Sameer Verma" <sverma at sfsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [OLPC India] India Digest, Vol 22, Issue 19
> To: "Ananya Guha" <nnyguha48 at gmail.com>
> Cc: india at lists.laptop.org
> Message-ID:
>        <5fb387c70809221058i486013bfsc5c7a3fdb7efa4f5 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Ananya Guha <nnyguha48 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think Marc's basic question has not been answered.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > A.S.Guha.
>
>
> And what is that basic question?
>
> Sameer
>
> > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Marc Valentin
> >> <mvalentin at oeuvredespains.org> wrote:
> >> > On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu>
> wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Satish Jha <sjha at vsnl.com> wrote:
> >> >>> I am overwhelmed by the kind of support this project is receiving
> from
> >> >>> everyone.. from individuals to institutions and corporations and
> >> >>> governments.. they have all been trying to do their best..
> >> >>>
> >> >>> My corporate relations adviser informs me that an airline has agreed
> >> >>> to give
> >> >>> a number of free tickets for the staff, a business house is willing
> to
> >> >>> offer
> >> >>> office space and support for all the schools it runs and the
> children
> >> >>> they
> >> >>> have run up in six figures and so on..
> >> >>>
> >> >>> However, our goal is to reach out to those who cannot help
> >> >>> themselves.. And
> >> >>> our efforts are focused primarily in that direction.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> While individual initiatives greatly contribute to the cause,
> >> >>> aggregating
> >> >>> them in an organized way may get a lot more out of them.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> We should also keep in mind that our production batch size is 50,000
> >> >>> at one
> >> >>> time and unless we can scale up, the program will have different
> kind
> >> >>> of
> >> >>> management challenges.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> In this listserv, if we can focus on how to aggregate to large
> >> >>> numbers, it
> >> >>> will be a great help indeed.
> >> >>
> >> >> Maybe what we need is a simple list or table of people who what small
> >> >> batches of XOs in their school, village, neighborhood etc., organized
> >> >> by location, etc. That way we can combine small batches into a larger
> >> >> order. If 50 schools of 1000 children each speak up, we get 50K. It
> >> >> could very well be a simple form that people fill out with all these
> >> >> details and contact info, potential donors (whether they have any or
> >> >> are seeking, etc).
> >> >>
> >> >> This could even scale worldwide...
> >> >>
> >> >> Thoughts?
> >> >
> >> > I think it must be very exciting to see all the children of a school
> >> > roaming around with XO laptops but I don't see the educative aspect in
> >> > it. First, you need capable and motivated teachers, very difficult to
> >> > find.
> >>
> >> I disagree. First, you need capable and motivated *children* and
> >> that's easier to do than to retrofit a thirty-something teacher with
> >> new thinking.
> >>
> >> > Second, children can easily share the laptops during the day,
> >> > they are not going to spend the whole day using the laptops, isn't it
> >> > ? It depends on the quantity of divisions in the school but with one
> >> > division, 50 laptops are certainly enough so during a class using XO,
> >> > each child can have his own laptop. (That was the source of the
> >> > misunderstanding in a previous message : we have 35 laptops and 50
> >> > would be just perfect).
> >>
> >> I am tempted to say that I find your lack of faith disturbing :-)
> >> (subtle Star Wars humor)
> >>
> >> I've seen children work with the XO. Yes, you need teachers to keep an
> >> eye on things in a classroom, and yes you will need to educate them
> >> about the project and process, but give the children some credit. I
> >> don't know how old you are Marc, but I am willing to bet, the kids are
> >> a lot younger :-) They learn faster and in much better ways than you
> >> and I can. I started KinderGarten with chalk and slate. Why should we
> >> subject the children to chalk and slate if we can bypass it?
> >>
> >> So, kids walking around with XOs is educational? I think so. Every
> >> time they learn that multiplication is addition done several times
> >> using Pippy, they learn. I didn't learn that until 11th grade (not
> >> very sharp, was I?) when I learned to write BASIC programs. Why?
> >> Because the nuns at my convent school never bothered to teach me. They
> >> surely did a good job of beating it into me (all the way up to tables
> >> of 14), but that's another story. See more at
> >> http://sameerverma.org/blog/?postid=164
> >>
> >> > If you consider the budget aspect only : 1000 laptops means $200,000
> >> > only for the hardware. You still have to count the training and the
> >> > maintenance. It is a very big amount, too big for a 1000 children's
> >> > school.
> >>
> >> Yes, that number is true. In fact, if you look at Habib Khan's
> >> spreadsheet, you'll see what some of the real costs are.
> >>
> >>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:OLPC_Cost_Simulation_Model_for_South_Asian_Countries_by_Habib.xls
> >>
> >> We have to be realistic. The idea isn't doing this cheap. The idea is
> >> to get someone who *can afford it* to pay for it. The XO costs are
> >> still less than $350 or so for an ASUS EEE PC. All other costs will
> >> remain the same, if not increase.
> >>
> >> > I know donations can come from abroad but local people will
> >> > feel you mis the point, the main problem in India is the lack of
> >> > infrastructures
> >>
> >> Lack of infrastructure can be bypassed or circumvented by the XOs
> >> bringing their own infrastructure with them. If we wait to build the
> >> infrastructure, that might be another ten years gone by.
> >>
> >> > and the poor attendance of the teachers and the
> >> > students.
> >>
> >> I believe this has improved dramatically once the children have a
> >> reason to be there. In Bhagmalpur
> >> (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_India/Bhagmalpur), the school has a
> >> near 100% attendance. The real reason? Free mid-day meal from the UP
> >> government. Post lunch, the school looks empty and the kids raid the
> >> village backyards and gardens in search of mischief.
> >>
> >> I don't intend to discount your opinion in any way. After all, you
> >> have a school of 35 XOs. Your input is valuable. We are all on the
> >> same team here. At least, I hope so. However, some of the thinking
> >> with this project is incredibly disruptive, and will require us to
> >> think in disruptive ways. Otherwise, the XO Speak will dictate "Two
> >> one za two..." and the children will repeat.
> >>
> >> Sameer
> >> --
> >> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> >> Associate Professor of Information Systems
> >> San Francisco State University
> >> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
> >> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> >> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> India mailing list
> >> India at lists.laptop.org
> >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:20:19 -0700
> From: "Edward Cherlin" <echerlin at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [OLPC India] India Digest, Vol 22, Issue 19
> To: Asksst at aol.com
> Cc: iaep <iaep at lists.sugarlabs.org>, india at lists.laptop.org
> Message-ID:
>        <e574f6eb0809221120t73387f22uead76e370c8ce778 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 10:29 AM,  <Asksst at aol.com> wrote:
> > Ankur,
> > We are planning to use XO laptops with Windows at a girls school in rural
> > area near Kanpur.
>
> Why?
>
> Is that Windows-only, or dual-boot?
>
> > I'm located in New York. Can you help? We can talk on
> > phone if you are in US or Skype.
> >
> > Thanks .......... Sheel Thakur
> > REad foundation
> > (914-428-0960)
> > In a message dated 9/21/2008 12:00:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > india-request at lists.laptop.org writes:
> >
> > Send India mailing list submissions to
> >     india at lists.laptop.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >     http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >     india-request at lists.laptop.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >     india-owner at lists.laptop.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of India digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Connectivity aspects of XO (Ankur Verma)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2008 20:12:31 +0530
> > From: "Ankur Verma" <ankur at laptop.org>
> > Subject: [OLPC India] Connectivity aspects of XO
> > To: olpc <india at lists.laptop.org>
> > Cc: seth at laptop.org
> > Message-ID:
> >     <4d6328f40809210742l4ea285fm279efdd77aa09ce6 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I was a summer intern at OLPC, Cambridge where I worked on Internet
> > Connectivity of XO using modems and cell phones and also integrated SMS
> > capability to Chat activity on XO.
> >
> > I would be interested in helping out in similar work at future
> deployments
> > in India.
> >
> > Kindly let me know if I can help.
> >
> > Best,
> > Ankur Verma
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > India mailing list
> > India at lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
> >
> >
> > End of India Digest, Vol 22, Issue 19
> > *************************************
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
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> > India mailing list
> > India at lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Don't panic.--HHGTTG, Douglas Adams
> fivethirtyeight.com, 3bluedudes.com Obama still ahead in EC!
> http://www.obamapedia.org/ Join us!
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai For the children
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> India mailing list
> India at lists.laptop.org
> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
>
>
> End of India Digest, Vol 22, Issue 23
> *************************************
>

-- 
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VP-Intl Marketing
www.globalcubeit.com
http://execdev.blogspot.com/

"The world is full of abundance and opportunity, but >far too many people
come to the fountain of life with a sieve instead of a tank >car... a
teaspoon instead of a steam shovel. They expect little and as a result >they
get little." ~ Ben Sweetland

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growing. You get to choose."Dr. Wayne Dyer
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