Android, OLPC, and native hosting

NoiseEHC NoiseEHC at
Tue Dec 29 07:36:41 EST 2009

>> For the other people talking about IDEs: an usable IDE is not a text
>> editor.
> Of course. What I do (and most other productive programmers I know do)
> is use the window manager (gnome, kde, awesome...), xterms, a
> webbrowser, etc, to make a "LIDE": loosely integrated dev environment.
> I've led various large programming teams -- all the top-quality and
> top-productivity programmers had long since abandoned Eclipse and
> similar TIDEs (tightly integrated DE).
> I've used varios TIDEs over the last 10 years, Eclipse one of them.
> They have all been inferior to the gnome/emacs/xterms/gitk setup I use
> now.

Yeah, the Real Men Do Not Debug argument... Have you considered the 
possibility that those top-quality programmers abandoned IDEs because 
they do not play well with UNIX makefiles and mixed language projects or 
because they just love emacs macros or because debugging on UNIX sux? 
How is it applicable for developing a simple Activity is beyond me so 
please enlighten me. Another (optional) question is why did you left out 
gdb from the list? All your code is perfect because you are a 
top-quality programmer who do not make mistakes because of emacs or what?

> I started on the C64 too, and you'll find others on this list have
> similar and deeper chops than that. The point stands, however, TIDEs
> are not needed, and in many many cases not optimal. You may try to
> call them a valid stepping-stone in the learning, but you will need to
> bring some solid proof.
> BTW, when I program for the XO, I do it on an XO, with additional rpms
> (git, emacs...). My only "cheat" is that I use an external keyboard.

You know I do not argue that IDEs are an absolute necessity to develop 
code because even I can develop without IDEs, like the endless suffering 
I had to enjoy while fixing some kernel bugs. What I am saying is that I 
*do not want* to develop without IDEs. Probably because I am not a 
member of the Real Men Do Not Debug Club or I am not one of the 
"top-quality and top-productivity programmers", I do not care. What I do 
care is that because of the lack of IDEs for Sugar development you can 
only choose from the members of the very exclusive Real Men Do Not Debug 
Club. Of course if we limit ourselves to the people who can be 
productive without IDEs then of course IDEs are not a necessity. You 
really did not had to type so much to show this tautology to me.

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