[sugar] Sugar Digest, Vol 14, Issue 7

Thu Aug 2 15:19:00 EDT 2007

less is more

I went to university with an East German lad who could write C, Assembly
Code as well as he could eat sausages, without comments, perhaps you need a
few more people on this project of East European origin? I would not have my
degree without him!!

On 02/08/07, sugar-request at lists.laptop.org <sugar-request at lists.laptop.org>
wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Docs? (Walter Bender)
>    2. Submitting patches (Marco Pesenti Gritti)
>    3. sugar-jhbuild, Fedora Core 6 and Python 2.5 (Keith R. Fieldhouse)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 20:52:50 -0400
> From: "Walter Bender" <walter.bender at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [sugar] Docs?
> To: "Ryan Pavlik" <abiryan at ryand.net>, "Eben Eliason"
>         <eben.eliason at gmail.com>
> Cc: Sugar Mailing List <sugar at lists.laptop.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <fd535e260708011752u2ec7ce91yb3e2a6920db057ad at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> One thing we have been lagging behind on is documentation for
> developers: APIs, etc. Eben has done a nice job on the UI guidelines,
> but there more help we can and should provide to those who want to dig
> into the code itself--something we are encouraging the children and
> teachers to do.
>
> -walter
>
> On 8/1/07, Eben Eliason <eben.eliason at gmail.com> wrote:
> > We're not ignorant of the need for some amount of explanation about
> various
> > aspects of the UI and also some activities.  For the most part, we do
> feel
> > that the interfaces will offer an immediately usable or at least quickly
> > discoverable experience for most, and this has been true in some early
> > trials with much earlier (and buggier) versions of the software.
> > Nonetheless, we wouldn't presume that it will be "obvious" to all.  For
> that
> > matter, some of the advanced functionality that provides the high
> ceiling in
> > our "low floor, high ceiling" model may actually be less discoverable in
> > favor of a simpler up front experience, and in those cases documentation
> can
> > be a valuable thing.
> >
> > In any event, this project is about both education and community.  These
> two
> > items should re-factor the way we think about help.  Yes, we'll provide
> some
> > basic documentation; yes, activity developers will do the same.  But in
> the
> > long run, it's much more consistent with our goals for the project to
> create
> > an ever growing community around the laptops and their activities, where
> > children, teachers, and developers alike can post tips, suggestions,
> formal
> > documentation, images, video, experiences, and tutorials about both
> software
> > and hardware.  In this way, we can leverage the power of the communities
> and
> > the children themselves, who are eager to explore and learn, and can
> learn
> > how to help each other through the process.  By handing out some
> > responsibility, the localization problem can be solved
> naturally.  Having an
> > evolving system for help also makes a lot of sense when the software is
> both
> > young and continually changing.
> >
> >
> > We're not neglecting help on principle; we're adjusting our view of the
> help
> > model in light of the project's mission and goals.
> >
> > - Eben
> >
> >
> > On 8/1/07, Ryan Pavlik <abiryan at ryand.net> wrote:
> > > I am not coming up with these ideas, just relaying them.  If you wish
> > > for comment by the entire community, including those who know more
> about
> > > it than me, use the "Reply to All" feature of your mail client rather
> > > than sending private replies - I am rather unqualified to answer most
> of
> > > your questions.
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > >
> > > dthornburg at aol.com wrote:
> > > > Dear Ryan,
> > > >
> > > > I don't doubt the solid pedagogical underpinnings of the OLPC, and
> > > > fully endorse the principles.  As the 25th employee at Xerox PARC I
> > > > have more than a passing interest in user interfaces, and I applaud
> > > > Sugar's innovative approach (and talk about it in many of my
> > > > presentations).  That said, my experience using technology with kids
> > > > since the 1970's has revealed different levels of "obviousness," and
> > > > this is reflected in the many spirited discussions on this list.
> > > > Pardon me if it appears that the idea of "obviating the need for
> > > > documentation" is slightly hubristic.  There will be some
> (especially
> > > > among the adult decision-making community) who will benefit from
> some
> > > > documentation.  Are you suggesting that (for example) eToys needs no
> > > > documentation?  If so how do you explain that the first Smalltalk
> > > > documentation consisted of TWO hardbound books published by
> > > > Addison-Welsey.
> > > >
> > > > I am a huge fan of having kids jump into the deep end of new
> > > > projects.  I also have found that helpful resources are quite
> valuable.
> > > >
> > > > Warm regards,
> > > >
> > > > David Thornburg, PhD
> > > > Director, Global Operations
> > > > Thornburg Center
> > > > Chicago, USA | Recife, Brasil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ryan Pavlik <abiryan at ryand.net>
> > > > To: dthornburg at aol.com; Sugar Mailing List < sugar at lists.laptop.org>
> > > > Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:57 pm
> > > > Subject: Re: [sugar] Docs?
> > > >
> > > > By self-documenting I mean that the interface obviates the need for
> > > > documentation, not that it produces written documentation. You might
> > > > be interested to look at http://wiki.laptop.org - it is as much
> > > > (more!) an education project as a laptop project, and the
> educational
> > > > theory behind the decision decisions is pretty interesting.
> > > >
> > > > Ryan
> > > >
> > > > dthornburg at aol.com <mailto:dthornburg at aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > If the OLPC is self-documenting, who is handling this, how much
> > > > memory > does it take, and what does the interface look like? It
> seems
> > > > that > this would have come up in conversations by now.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just asking.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Thornburg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Ryan Pavlik <abiryan at ryand.net <mailto:abiryan at ryand.net >>
> > > > > To: Edward Cherlin <echerlin at gmail.com <mailto:echerlin at gmail.com
> >>
> > > > > Cc: sugar at lists.laptop.org <mailto:sugar at lists.laptop.org>
> > > > > Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 7:35 pm
> > > > > Subject: Re: [sugar] Docs?
> > > > >
> > > > > I am certainly not an OLPC rep, but what I have seen suggests that
> > > > the >
> > > > > intent is for the machines to be self-instructing and not
> requiring >
> > > > > documentation. In addition to the massive translation demands that
> >
> > > > > would require, it also does not coincide with the educational >
> > > > > theories/practices that the organization is pursuing.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, if you want to make developer documentation, then I
> think >
> > > > > anyone's answer would be, dive in! :) Just ask which regions are
> > > > stable >
> > > > > first so your work doesn't get obsoleted quickly.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ryan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Edward Cherlin wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Is there any plan for official software documentation? I have
> been
> > > > a >
> > > > > > Senior Tech Writer for the last 10 years and would be delighted
> to >
> > > > > > work on it (particularly if someone like Red Hat would support
> me
> > > > to >
> > > > > > do it 60 hours a week *<{%-{]}}} <--Goggle-eyed geek in clown
> hat, >
> > > > > > moustache, and full beard). Actually, I have been writing about
> XO >
> > > > > > software off and on ever since the Dynabook days, when Xerox
> > > > licensed >
> > > > > > Smalltalk to Apple, HP, and others in 1981, during my market
> > > > research >
> > > > > > period.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > For example, I wrote in a study of so-called educational
> software
> > > > back >
> > > > > > then that the overpriced drill-and-practice programs of the time
> >
> > > > > > weren't real educational software, and that what children need
> is >
> > > > > > sharp tools to do stuff with. Commercial educational software is
> > > > still >
> > > > > > a vast wasteland, with a few honorable exceptions. Then I did a
> > > > study >
> > > > > > on Personal Instruments (data acquisition and analysis on PCs),
> and
> > >
> > > > > > some other reports that touched on education. Besides starting
> and >
> > > > > > managing a software project for math for schools. And a few
> other
> > > > things.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I have a button that says, "Stop me before I volunteer again,"
> but
> > > > it >
> > > > > > doesn't help. [sigh]
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -- >
> > > > > > Edward Cherlin
> > > > >
> > > > > > Earth Treasury: End Poverty at a Profit
> > > > >
> > > > > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Earth_Treasury
> > > > >
> > > > > > WIRE AFRICA http//www.wireafrica.org/ <
> http://www.wireafrica.org/>
> > > > <http://www.wireafrica.org/>
> > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/cherlin
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > >
> > > > > > Sugar mailing list
> > > > >
> > > > > > Sugar at lists.laptop.org <mailto:Sugar at lists.laptop.org >
> > > > <mailto:Sugar at lists.laptop.org <mailto:Sugar at lists.laptop.org?>>
> > > > >
> > > > > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -- >
> > > > > Ryan Pavlik
> > > > >
> > > > > AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: www.abisource.com
> > > > <http://www.abisource.com> <http://www.abisource.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > AbiWord Community Outreach Project:
> > > > www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/
> > > > <http://www.cleardefinition.com /oss/abi/blog/>
> > > > <http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement."
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Helen Keller
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as
> Ubuntu
> > > > >
> > > > > was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were
> > > > >
> > > > > created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers."
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ______________________________ _________________
> > > > >
> > > > > Sugar mailing list
> > > > >
> > > > > Sugar at lists.laptop.org <mailto:Sugar at lists.laptop.org >
> > > > <mailto:Sugar at lists.laptop.org <mailto:Sugar at lists.laptop.org?>>
> > > > >
> > > > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
> > > > >
> > > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
> > > > free > from AOL at *AOL.com*
> > > > <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437>.
> > > >
> > > > -- Ryan Pavlik
> > > > AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: www.abisource.com
> > > > <http://www.abisource.com>
> > > > AbiWord Community Outreach Project:
> > > > www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/
> > > > <http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/>
> > > >
> > > > "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement."
> > > > -- Helen Keller
> > > >
> > > > "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu
> > > > was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were
> > > > created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers."
> > > > -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide
> > > >
> > > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
> free
> > > > from AOL at * AOL.com* <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437
> >.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ryan Pavlik
> > > AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: www.abisource.com
> > > AbiWord Community Outreach Project:
> www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/
> > >
> > > "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement."
> > > -- Helen Keller
> > >
> > > "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu
> > > was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were
> > > created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers."
> > > -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sugar mailing list
> > > Sugar at lists.laptop.org
> > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sugar mailing list
> > Sugar at lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> One Laptop per Child
> http://laptop.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:43:56 +0200
> From: "Marco Pesenti Gritti" <mpgritti at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sugar] Submitting patches
> To: "Sugar List" <sugar at laptop.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <c0ad901f0708020143m63ecb737yce42a9b36899529a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Please follow the process outlined in this wiki page when submitting
> patches for Sugar.
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_Patches
>
> Thanks,
> Marco
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:33:27 -0400
> From: "Keith R. Fieldhouse" <olpc at rexmere.com>
> Subject: [sugar] sugar-jhbuild, Fedora Core 6 and Python 2.5
> To: Sugar at lists.laptop.org
> Message-ID: <46B1F947.4090406 at rexmere.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hello,
>
> After a month or two hiatus, I wanted to refresh my sugar-jhbuild
> environment, starting with a fresh git-clone.
>
> My development environment is a Fedora Core 6 system.
>
> I find now that sugar-jhbuild says that Python 2.5 is a dependency when
> I attempt a "sugar-jhbuild build".
>
> What is the best way to resolve this?
>
> 1. Build my own Python 2.5 and make sure it's visible to sugar-jhbuild?
> 2. Upgrade to Fedora Core 7 (fairly easy since this is all virtualized
> for me)
> 3. Convince sugar-jhbuild to build a python 2.5 for me (though
> meta-sugar-base seems to be gone?)
>
> I'm most interested in understanding the mainstream/expected answer that
> will make it easiest to track the sugar-jhbuild environment in the future.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Keith Fieldhouse
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sugar mailing list
> Sugar at lists.laptop.org
> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
>
>
> End of Sugar Digest, Vol 14, Issue 7
> ************************************
>

-- 
Cameron Barnett
+33 (0)6 10 16 30 34 (mobile)

cameron.barnett at gmail.com
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