less is more<br><br>I went to university with an East German lad who could write C, Assembly Code as well as he could eat sausages, without comments, perhaps you need a few more people on this project of East European origin? I would not have my degree without him!!
<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 02/08/07, <b class="gmail_sendername"><a href="mailto:sugar-request@lists.laptop.org">sugar-request@lists.laptop.org</a></b> <<a href="mailto:sugar-request@lists.laptop.org">sugar-request@lists.laptop.org
</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Send Sugar mailing list submissions to<br> <a href="mailto:sugar@lists.laptop.org">
sugar@lists.laptop.org</a><br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar</a><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
<br> <a href="mailto:sugar-request@lists.laptop.org">sugar-request@lists.laptop.org</a><br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> <a href="mailto:sugar-owner@lists.laptop.org">sugar-owner@lists.laptop.org
</a><br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of Sugar digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: Docs? (Walter Bender)<br> 2. Submitting patches (Marco Pesenti Gritti)
<br> 3. sugar-jhbuild, Fedora Core 6 and Python 2.5 (Keith R. Fieldhouse)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 20:52:50 -0400<br>From: "Walter Bender" <
<a href="mailto:walter.bender@gmail.com">walter.bender@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [sugar] Docs?<br>To: "Ryan Pavlik" <<a href="mailto:abiryan@ryand.net">abiryan@ryand.net</a>>, "Eben Eliason"
<br> <<a href="mailto:eben.eliason@gmail.com">eben.eliason@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: Sugar Mailing List <<a href="mailto:sugar@lists.laptop.org">sugar@lists.laptop.org</a>><br>Message-ID:<br> <<a href="mailto:fd535e260708011752u2ec7ce91yb3e2a6920db057ad@mail.gmail.com">
fd535e260708011752u2ec7ce91yb3e2a6920db057ad@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br><br>One thing we have been lagging behind on is documentation for<br>developers: APIs, etc. Eben has done a nice job on the UI guidelines,
<br>but there more help we can and should provide to those who want to dig<br>into the code itself--something we are encouraging the children and<br>teachers to do.<br><br>-walter<br><br>On 8/1/07, Eben Eliason <<a href="mailto:eben.eliason@gmail.com">
eben.eliason@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> We're not ignorant of the need for some amount of explanation about various<br>> aspects of the UI and also some activities. For the most part, we do feel<br>> that the interfaces will offer an immediately usable or at least quickly
<br>> discoverable experience for most, and this has been true in some early<br>> trials with much earlier (and buggier) versions of the software.<br>> Nonetheless, we wouldn't presume that it will be "obvious" to all. For that
<br>> matter, some of the advanced functionality that provides the high ceiling in<br>> our "low floor, high ceiling" model may actually be less discoverable in<br>> favor of a simpler up front experience, and in those cases documentation can
<br>> be a valuable thing.<br>><br>> In any event, this project is about both education and community. These two<br>> items should re-factor the way we think about help. Yes, we'll provide some<br>> basic documentation; yes, activity developers will do the same. But in the
<br>> long run, it's much more consistent with our goals for the project to create<br>> an ever growing community around the laptops and their activities, where<br>> children, teachers, and developers alike can post tips, suggestions, formal
<br>> documentation, images, video, experiences, and tutorials about both software<br>> and hardware. In this way, we can leverage the power of the communities and<br>> the children themselves, who are eager to explore and learn, and can learn
<br>> how to help each other through the process. By handing out some<br>> responsibility, the localization problem can be solved naturally. Having an<br>> evolving system for help also makes a lot of sense when the software is both
<br>> young and continually changing.<br>><br>><br>> We're not neglecting help on principle; we're adjusting our view of the help<br>> model in light of the project's mission and goals.<br>><br>
> - Eben<br>><br>><br>> On 8/1/07, Ryan Pavlik <<a href="mailto:abiryan@ryand.net">abiryan@ryand.net</a>> wrote:<br>> > I am not coming up with these ideas, just relaying them. If you wish<br>> > for comment by the entire community, including those who know more about
<br>> > it than me, use the "Reply to All" feature of your mail client rather<br>> > than sending private replies - I am rather unqualified to answer most of<br>> > your questions.<br>> >
<br>> > Ryan<br>> ><br>> > <a href="mailto:dthornburg@aol.com">dthornburg@aol.com</a> wrote:<br>> > > Dear Ryan,<br>> > ><br>> > > I don't doubt the solid pedagogical underpinnings of the OLPC, and
<br>> > > fully endorse the principles. As the 25th employee at Xerox PARC I<br>> > > have more than a passing interest in user interfaces, and I applaud<br>> > > Sugar's innovative approach (and talk about it in many of my
<br>> > > presentations). That said, my experience using technology with kids<br>> > > since the 1970's has revealed different levels of "obviousness," and<br>> > > this is reflected in the many spirited discussions on this list.
<br>> > > Pardon me if it appears that the idea of "obviating the need for<br>> > > documentation" is slightly hubristic. There will be some (especially<br>> > > among the adult decision-making community) who will benefit from some
<br>> > > documentation. Are you suggesting that (for example) eToys needs no<br>> > > documentation? If so how do you explain that the first Smalltalk<br>> > > documentation consisted of TWO hardbound books published by
<br>> > > Addison-Welsey.<br>> > ><br>> > > I am a huge fan of having kids jump into the deep end of new<br>> > > projects. I also have found that helpful resources are quite valuable.
<br>> > ><br>> > > Warm regards,<br>> > ><br>> > > David Thornburg, PhD<br>> > > Director, Global Operations<br>> > > Thornburg Center<br>> > > Chicago, USA | Recife, Brasil
<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > -----Original Message-----<br>> > > From: Ryan Pavlik <<a href="mailto:abiryan@ryand.net">abiryan@ryand.net</a>><br>> > > To: <a href="mailto:dthornburg@aol.com">
dthornburg@aol.com</a>; Sugar Mailing List < <a href="mailto:sugar@lists.laptop.org">sugar@lists.laptop.org</a>><br>> > > Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:57 pm<br>> > > Subject: Re: [sugar] Docs?<br>> > >
<br>> > > By self-documenting I mean that the interface obviates the need for<br>> > > documentation, not that it produces written documentation. You might<br>> > > be interested to look at <a href="http://wiki.laptop.org">
http://wiki.laptop.org</a> - it is as much<br>> > > (more!) an education project as a laptop project, and the educational<br>> > > theory behind the decision decisions is pretty interesting.<br>> > >
<br>> > > Ryan<br>> > ><br>> > > <a href="mailto:dthornburg@aol.com">dthornburg@aol.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dthornburg@aol.com">dthornburg@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br>> > > > If the OLPC is self-documenting, who is handling this, how much
<br>> > > memory > does it take, and what does the interface look like? It seems<br>> > > that > this would have come up in conversations by now.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Just asking.
<br>> > > ><br>> > > > David Thornburg<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > -----Original Message-----<br>> > > > From: Ryan Pavlik <<a href="mailto:abiryan@ryand.net">
abiryan@ryand.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:abiryan@ryand.net">abiryan@ryand.net</a> >><br>> > > > To: Edward Cherlin <<a href="mailto:echerlin@gmail.com">echerlin@gmail.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:echerlin@gmail.com">
echerlin@gmail.com</a>>><br>> > > > Cc: <a href="mailto:sugar@lists.laptop.org">sugar@lists.laptop.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:sugar@lists.laptop.org">sugar@lists.laptop.org</a>><br>> > > > Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 7:35 pm
<br>> > > > Subject: Re: [sugar] Docs?<br>> > > ><br>> > > > I am certainly not an OLPC rep, but what I have seen suggests that<br>> > > the ><br>> > > > intent is for the machines to be self-instructing and not requiring >
<br>> > > > documentation. In addition to the massive translation demands that ><br>> > > > would require, it also does not coincide with the educational ><br>> > > > theories/practices that the organization is pursuing.
<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > Of course, if you want to make developer documentation, then I think ><br>> > > > anyone's answer would be, dive in! :) Just ask which regions are
<br>> > > stable ><br>> > > > first so your work doesn't get obsoleted quickly.<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > Ryan<br>> > > >
<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > Edward Cherlin wrote:<br>> > > ><br>> > > > > Is there any plan for official software documentation? I have been<br>> > > a >
<br>> > > > > Senior Tech Writer for the last 10 years and would be delighted to ><br>> > > > > work on it (particularly if someone like Red Hat would support me<br>> > > to ><br>
> > > > > do it 60 hours a week *<{%-{]}}} <--Goggle-eyed geek in clown hat, ><br>> > > > > moustache, and full beard). Actually, I have been writing about XO ><br>> > > > > software off and on ever since the Dynabook days, when Xerox
<br>> > > licensed ><br>> > > > > Smalltalk to Apple, HP, and others in 1981, during my market<br>> > > research ><br>> > > > > period.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > >
<br>> > > ><br>> > > > > For example, I wrote in a study of so-called educational software<br>> > > back ><br>> > > > > then that the overpriced drill-and-practice programs of the time >
<br>> > > > > weren't real educational software, and that what children need is ><br>> > > > > sharp tools to do stuff with. Commercial educational software is<br>> > > still >
<br>> > > > > a vast wasteland, with a few honorable exceptions. Then I did a<br>> > > study ><br>> > > > > on Personal Instruments (data acquisition and analysis on PCs), and<br>
> ><br>> > > > > some other reports that touched on education. Besides starting and ><br>> > > > > managing a software project for math for schools. And a few other<br>> > > things.
<br>> > > ><br>> > > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > > I have a button that says, "Stop me before I volunteer again," but<br>> > > it ><br>> > > > > doesn't help. [sigh]
<br>> > > ><br>> > > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > > -- ><br>> > > > > Edward Cherlin<br>> > > ><br>> > > > > Earth Treasury: End Poverty at a Profit
<br>> > > ><br>> > > > > <a href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Earth_Treasury">http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Earth_Treasury</a><br>> > > ><br>> > > > > WIRE AFRICA http//www.wireafrica.org/ <
<a href="http://www.wireafrica.org/">http://www.wireafrica.org/</a>><br>> > > <<a href="http://www.wireafrica.org/">http://www.wireafrica.org/</a>><br>> > > ><br>> > > > > <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/cherlin">
http://www.linkedin.com/in/cherlin</a><br>> > > ><br>> > > > ><br>> > ><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > > ><br>> > > > >
<br>> > > ><br>> > > > > _______________________________________________<br>> > > ><br>> > > > > Sugar mailing list<br>> > > ><br>> > > > >
<a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a> ><br>> > > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org
</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a>?>><br>> > > ><br>> > > > > <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
</a><br>> > > ><br>> > > > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > -- ><br>> > > > Ryan Pavlik<br>
> > > ><br>> > > > AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: <a href="http://www.abisource.com">www.abisource.com</a><br>> > > <<a href="http://www.abisource.com">http://www.abisource.com
</a>> <<a href="http://www.abisource.com">http://www.abisource.com</a>><br>> > > ><br>> > > > AbiWord Community Outreach Project:<br>> > > <a href="http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/">
www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/</a><br>> > > <<a href="http://www.cleardefinition.com">http://www.cleardefinition.com</a> /oss/abi/blog/><br>> > > <<a href="http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/">
http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/</a>><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement."<br>> > > >
<br>> > > > -- Helen Keller<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu<br>> > > >
<br>> > > > was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were<br>> > > ><br>> > > > created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers."<br>> > > ><br>
> > > > -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > ______________________________ _________________<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Sugar mailing list
<br>> > > ><br>> > > > <a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a> ><br>> > > <mailto:
<a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a>?>><br>> > > ><br>> > > > <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar">
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar</a><br>> > > ><br>> > ><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
<br>> > > free > from AOL at *AOL.com*<br>> > > <<a href="http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437">http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437</a>>.<br>> > ><br>> > > -- Ryan Pavlik
<br>> > > AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: <a href="http://www.abisource.com">www.abisource.com</a><br>> > > <<a href="http://www.abisource.com">http://www.abisource.com</a>><br>> > > AbiWord Community Outreach Project:
<br>> > > <a href="http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/">www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/</a><br>> > > <<a href="http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/">http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/
</a>><br>> > ><br>> > > "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement."<br>> > > -- Helen Keller<br>> > ><br>> > > "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu
<br>> > > was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were<br>> > > created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers."<br>> > > -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide<br>> > >
<br>> > ><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free<br>> > > from AOL at *
AOL.com* <<a href="http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437">http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437</a>>.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > --<br>> > Ryan Pavlik<br>> > AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead:
<a href="http://www.abisource.com">www.abisource.com</a><br>> > AbiWord Community Outreach Project: <a href="http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/">www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/</a><br>> ><br>> > "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement."
<br>> > -- Helen Keller<br>> ><br>> > "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu<br>> > was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were<br>> > created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers."
<br>> > -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide<br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Sugar mailing list<br>> > <a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org
</a><br>> > <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar</a><br>> ><br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Sugar mailing list
<br>> <a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar</a><br>><br>><br><br><br>--<br>Walter Bender
<br>One Laptop per Child<br><a href="http://laptop.org">http://laptop.org</a><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 2<br>Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:43:56 +0200<br>From: "Marco Pesenti Gritti" <
<a href="mailto:mpgritti@gmail.com">mpgritti@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: [sugar] Submitting patches<br>To: "Sugar List" <<a href="mailto:sugar@laptop.org">sugar@laptop.org</a>><br>Message-ID:<br> <
<a href="mailto:c0ad901f0708020143m63ecb737yce42a9b36899529a@mail.gmail.com">c0ad901f0708020143m63ecb737yce42a9b36899529a@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br><br>Please follow the process outlined in this wiki page when submitting
<br>patches for Sugar.<br><br><a href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_Patches">http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Sugar_Patches</a><br><br>Thanks,<br>Marco<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 3<br>Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:33:27 -0400
<br>From: "Keith R. Fieldhouse" <<a href="mailto:olpc@rexmere.com">olpc@rexmere.com</a>><br>Subject: [sugar] sugar-jhbuild, Fedora Core 6 and Python 2.5<br>To: <a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org
</a><br>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:46B1F947.4090406@rexmere.com">46B1F947.4090406@rexmere.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br><br>Hello,<br><br>After a month or two hiatus, I wanted to refresh my sugar-jhbuild
<br>environment, starting with a fresh git-clone.<br><br>My development environment is a Fedora Core 6 system.<br><br>I find now that sugar-jhbuild says that Python 2.5 is a dependency when<br>I attempt a "sugar-jhbuild build".
<br><br>What is the best way to resolve this?<br><br>1. Build my own Python 2.5 and make sure it's visible to sugar-jhbuild?<br>2. Upgrade to Fedora Core 7 (fairly easy since this is all virtualized<br>for me)<br>3. Convince sugar-jhbuild to build a python
2.5 for me (though<br>meta-sugar-base seems to be gone?)<br><br>I'm most interested in understanding the mainstream/expected answer that<br>will make it easiest to track the sugar-jhbuild environment in the future.<br>
<br>Thanks,<br><br>Keith Fieldhouse<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Sugar mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Sugar@lists.laptop.org">Sugar@lists.laptop.org</a>
<br><a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar</a><br><br><br>End of Sugar Digest, Vol 14, Issue 7<br>************************************<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all">
<br>-- <br>Cameron Barnett<br>+33 (0)6 10 16 30 34 (mobile)<br><br><a href="mailto:cameron.barnett@gmail.com">cameron.barnett@gmail.com</a>