[Server-devel] Feedback: Problems with XSCE

Fri Nov 29 14:40:16 EST 2013

Apart from on a flat network, we are not going to solve the problem of
working on "corporate-style" school networks using Avahi.  That presumes
you can get multicast support working across the desired region.

The equivalent for larger networks would be DNS service records, presuming
you can get permission to create them.

Without going into whom is doing what, I personally know that Sugar is
being used:

   - On networks where DHCP is controlled by centralized IT.
   - Where the schoolserver's DNS name has to match an existing naming
   scheme.
   - Where there is no DNS hierarchy, so computers at every school are
   named like computer-xyz.example.edu
   - Where various forms of wireless authentication (PSK, 802.11x, etc.)
   are required for wireless access, and the students are not supposed to know
   the password.

   - Where the schoolserver is required to be in the School District's
   central datacenter.
   - Where a single schoolserver has to support more than one school.
   - Where a single network IP address range is used by multiple schools
   spaced several miles apart.

Some might think that these are insane network setups.  But when you get
into larger organizations things like this become the norm.

Teaching Sugar to use these sorts of resources instead of a hardcoded name
should not be that hard.  The catch is there are a lot of historical places
which independently have hardcoded this name.

I may toss out some design proposals on Sugar-devel later this weekend to
address some of these.  I think the basics should be simple enough to be
GCI tasks.

On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Jerry Vonau <jvonau at shaw.ca> wrote:

> I agree that deployment on preexisting networks has not really been given
> any attention given the long standing issues that have been ticketed in the
> past[1][2]. I like the idea of using avahi to advertise the
> "schoolserver's" services offered, just need to address the sugar
> side[3][4]. The changes would entail both a change to the server side and
> the sugar client side, that is outside of the scope of just "schoolserver"
> and is part of "sugar"-land.
>
> I don't think the documentation of the XSCE is any better or worse than
> what is provided for the XS-0.7 but there is always room for improvement.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> 1. http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/11775
> 2. http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/12156
> 3. http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8499
> 4. http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1976
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Samuel Greenfeld" <samuel at greenfeld.org>
> To: "James Cameron" <quozl at laptop.org>, "Anish Mangal" <
> anish at activitycentral.com>, "server-devel" <server-devel at lists.laptop.org>
> Sent: Friday, 29 November, 2013 4:10:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [Server-devel] Feedback: Problems with XSCE
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I think you need to be careful how you phrase that -- you just half
> implied that all laptop.org hosting is going away. There has been a fair
> amount of fear that resources may suddenly disappear, and I have been
> concerned about fragmentation where hosting of resources ends up all over
> the place.
>
>
> If there is a perceived need to migrate resources then that should be made
> clear, as others have already offered potential alternative hosting. But
> there needs to be coordination.
>
>
> Focusing on the Deployment side, I would tend to agree with John's
> comments as well.
>
> Both Sugar and the Schoolserver have been historically focused on being
> their own ecosystem. This has never changed, yet Sugar and the XS are often
> offered for use where existing DHCP, DNS, and other services already exist.
>
>
> Due to local policies, you may not be allowed to name your schoolserver
> "schoolserver". You may have to support 802.11x network authentication,
> etc. It is possible to kludge these but the solutions are not elegant.
>
>
> If the Sugar and XSCE communities feel that the "enterprise"/first-world
> use case is a desired scenario where Sugar, IIAB, and/or Moodle may only be
> a part of a school's network instead of the primary role, then this
> specifically needs to be targeted.
>
> ---
>
> SJG
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 3:33 AM, James Cameron < quozl at laptop.org > wrote:
>
>
> I agree with John. Every point in his documentation section should be
> handled. Especially the point about wiki.laptop.org , which has so
> many distracting links on the navigation bar that we are all used to,
> but which new people become lost in.
>
> With regard to forums, the type that Google Groups has where they can
> also be received in mail may suffice.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 11:44:33AM +0530, Anish Mangal wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I would like to share this blog post from John Ellis with the XSCE
> community:
> > John is a high school student who is trying to setup XSCE in his
> class/school
> > under the supervision of his teacher Jeff Elkner.
> >
> > http://johnmichaelffs.blogspot.in/2013/11/problems-with-xsce.html
> >
> > Some of the stuff he points out certainly makes a lot of sense to me, I
> think
> > the core underling message is to make XSCE more approachable to the end
> user
> > and the advanced end-user/deployer. He has gone to some lengths to point
> out
> > specific aspects which could be improved.
> >
> > As we think about the possibilities for XSCE-0.6, I would like to
> further the
> > discussion along these topics here and/or on IRC. I think the project
> could do
> > well listening to end users' needs for the 0.6 cycle, especially that we
> now
> > seem to have our house in order codewise thanks to the terrific work by
> all the
> > software hackers here :-)
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Anish
> >
> >
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Server-devel mailing list
> > Server-devel at lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
>
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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