[Peripherals] Alternitive Power for Developing Countries
Arjun Sarwal
arjunsarwal at gmail.com
Thu May 8 13:52:28 EDT 2008
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:19 PM, Joshua Seal <josh at laptop.org> wrote:
> Arjun,
>
> You right, we should explore every possible solution - otherwise we might
> miss something really important. However, being that Peru has a requirement
> for power generation right now, it would be good to try and focus on
> solutions with a high chance of working and being scalable.
>
I completly agree Josh. We need to power laptops in Peru as soon as
possible! :-)
regards
Arjun
> The personal Solar can be cheaper, 5W is $12, but I was basing all my cost
> calculations on a 7.5W requirement (maybe not to charge but at least sustain
> the laptops)
>
> Nice to see the cows are willing and cheap!
>
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arjun Sarwal [mailto:arjunsarwal at gmail.com]
> Sent: 08 May 2008 18:37
> To: Joshua Seal
> Cc: info at olpc-peru.info; Carla Gomez Monroy; peripherals at lists.laptop.org;
> Holden Bonwit
> Subject: Re: [Peripherals] Alternitive Power for Developing Countries
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 7:38 PM, Joshua Seal <josh at laptop.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been thinking about power solutions for the XO for some time now
> > and I've been following this email thread with great interest.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have always thought that a spinning wheel type contraction would be
> > interesting to explore and it holds advantages over hand generation
> > solution because you can work and generate power at the same time.
> >
> >
> >
> > However, when I imagined a classroom with 30+ of these machines in,
> > with children pedalling away that's when I because a little suspect.
> >
> >
> >
> > Should we really expect children to generate the power for the XO?
> >
>
> Perhaps not. However social considerations might govern this factor more
> than others because parents have other things (mainly their full time job)
> to take care of.
> Also, a class of children charging their laptops might not be as bad as it
> seems. Maybe in the evening when classes are off kids can charge their
> laptops...
>
> >
> >
> > Personally, I think the power requirements for the XO is too high for
> > children to charge them. Yes, I'm sure something can be created that
> > children could operate - but is this scalable and long term? Do we
> > think that children are going to want to do this everyday throughout
> > their entire education?
> >
>
> I tend to agree with you. When I earlier mentioned on this site about
> avoiding human power solutions I intended to convey that the power
> requirement is not easily deliverable by a human, especially a kids.
>
> However I, by no means want to discourage anyone from trying these
> ideas(human power) out because most of these ideas are untested and untried
> and we should really explore them to see which one might work out.
>
> >
> >
> > Regardless of if its realistic or not here are some approximate costs
> > (educated guesses);
> >
> > * Personal Solar: $20 per XO (Variable effectiveness and difficult
> > for a classroom environment)
> >
>
> I had the idea that these were slightly cheaper, perhaps $12-$15. But that
> was just an offhand figure and I could no doubt be wrong.
>
> > * Classroom Solar: $35 per XO (Assuming peak efficiency - Roof
> > solar with charge controllers and power distribution)
> >
> > * Classroom Wind: $15 per XO (Assuming peak efficiency - Wind
> > Turbine tower outside school - variable output - Wind power generates
> > the cube of
> > velocity)
> >
> > * Hand Crank: $15 per XO
> >
> > * Cow Power: $13.75 per XO (35A Alternator ($300) + Gearing ($150)
> > + Batt ($100) = $550 for 40 XO?) (How much does a cow cost to 'fuel'?)
> >
>
> Hopefully cow wouldn't cost anything extra to fuel because they feed the cow
> to do 8-10 hours of work all day in the field, hopefully within the same
> energy it can spare an hour or two more for the XOs.
>
>
>
> > * Spinning Wheel: ???
> >
> >
> >
> > Feel free to modify these numbers.
> >
> >
> >
> > I think what is most important is to determine the sources of
> > potential energy in areas that need it, then design technology to utilise
> that.
> >
> >
> >
> > Javier I think you have mentioned that both water, wind and sun are
> > too variable to design a cost effective system around. Can you think
> > of energy sources that are readily available in these areas that could be
> utilised?
> >
> >
> >
> > You don't happen to have an abundance of zinc ore in Peru do you?
> >
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Josh
> >
>
> thanks for sharing your thoughts.
>
> best regards
> Arjun
>
>
> >
> >
> > ==
> >
> > Joshua Seal
> >
> > josh at laptop.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: peripherals-bounces at lists.laptop.org
> > [mailto:peripherals-bounces at lists.laptop.org] On Behalf Of
> > info at olpc-peru.info
> > Sent: 06 May 2008 18:55
> > To: arjunsarwal at gmail.com
> > Cc: Carla Gomez Monroy; peripherals at lists.laptop.org; Holden Bonwit
> >
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Peripherals] Alternitive Power for Developing Countries
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello Arjun et al,
> >
> > >* Cost of Alternators -- I agree they are expensive. Have you thought
> > about taking car alternators?
> >
> > You need to choose those alternators that have low RPM (low
> > Revolutions Per Minute).
> >
> > >They give 12V and usually have built in
> > mechanisms for cut-off when the battery is fully charged, and also
> > would be easily available.
> >
> > Yes, easilty available. In Peru that means that, but it doesnt mean
> > that they have a low cost. The most popular car here is the Korean
> > "Tico". Is everywhere, but... unlike we are... there is such demand
> > that the alternator (new one) cost US$300 each one.
> >
> > It is not possible to think in a solution based on "second hand"
> > alternators... they work.. but how we will get 250,000 used
> > alternators for the 250,000 XOs that will be deployed in Peru ? We
> > need to develop prototype, pilots that can be "sourced" in a secure,
> stable, confident way.
> > Wars have been lost due to the failure on the supplies chain.
> >
> > >In India I've found car alternators to cost
> > ~$100. They give about 35A output.
> >
> > Maybe we will need to import them. But... who will finance this ? We
> > can do the pilot/experiment/test/initial design. But... what then?
> >
> > >... I have come to realize
> > that it is very difficult for a human to provide the mechanical power
> > needed to charge an XO, whatever they may use - legs/hands etc. This
> > was one of the reasons why we fundamentally wanted animals to drive
> > our solution and not be human powered.
> >
> > That is because we are thinking in using ANY alternator. Normal car
> > alternators (like a Toyota) need 3,000 RPM. Then you need to "pedal"
> > (on the
> > bike) very fast and very steady to reach those RPM that the alternator
> > needs to start to generate energy. IF you use a LOW RMP alternator
> > then you don't need so much mechanical movement. There are alternators
> > (here in Peru) that works at very low RPM, just 200 RMP and they are
> > generating huge energy, they are used for some mining equipment and they
> cost around US$800 each.
> > So, technically is possible to "break" the RMP barrier, but then money
> > is an "impossible" wall to climb.
> >
> > There are many answers to this dilemma:
> > a) Modify a car alternator: add more magnets, add more "cooper" coiled
> > parts. Then you will need less RPM. You will need to do this with
> > almost ALL the car alternators that you can find. If you get an
> > alternator that is on the 600 RMP then you are VERY NEAR to what any
> > human been (big or small, child, woman, man) can generate.
> > b) Build your own alternator: import the magnets from China, very very
> > (and
> > very) cheap. Locally (at least in my country) we can add the cooper
> > coils bobins. We need a good design and some testing. Add some
> > circuits (very cheap too, any medium skilled tech here can build one)
> > for doing the cut off, the rectification, and other electronic gadgets.
> >
> > More: the bike/leg combination is not usefull because you move THE
> > WHOLE LEG. Too much waste. Then you transfer all that spend energy to
> > a small "flywheel" that transfer (by the chain) the movement to the
> > rotor (that is in the back of the bike). You need to do this because
> > you need BIG torque (initial force). In the case of the "charging
> > batteries" there is not need to move the weight of any person so no
> > such a need torque is needed. So, IF you use a spinning wheel (that is
> > what I have in mind) you move just one foot and that is good enough to
> move a BIG wheel that will move the "rotor"
> > on the alternator (or the pulley on the alternator). I have done the
> > calculations and that "foot" movement can generate from 500 to 600 RPM
> > with a very low and normal "pedaling" (treadling) rhythm. Since it is
> > in the "border line" I think we would need to add some extra pulley
> > system to add a little bit more RPMs.
> >
> > >*Rule of thumb -- Whatever you may design, remember, as a simple rule
> > of thumb, that from the alternator you may use, you'd need to provide
> > each XO laptop about 1.5A of current at 12V for about 2hours to charge
> > the battery from empty to full.
> >
> > I am taking note. Question: how long can the XO work with a full
> > charged battery ?
> > (then we can calculate how many "alternator sets" we need for this or
> > that
> > school)
> >
> > >It would be my suggestion to plan out the
> > power solution as much as in detail as possible before implementing
> > it, it would save you problems that you might face later on!
> >
> > AMEN!!!! Base line is what we need.
> >
> > Javier Rodriguez
> > Lima, Peru
> >
> >
> >
> > Arjun Sarwal wrote:
> > Hi Javier, Caryl and others,
> >
> > A few thoughts.
> >
> > * Cost of Alternators -- I agree they are expensive. Have you thought
> > about taking car alternators? They give 12V and usually have built in
> > mechanisms for cut-off when the battery is fully charged, and also
> > would be easily available. In India I've found car alternators to cost
> > ~$100. They give about 35A output.
> >
> > * I would like to see more variations of human power being explored,
> > like the one Caryl has mentioned. I think it is a very interesting
> > idea. However, whatever experience I have had, I have come to realize
> > that it is very difficult for a human to provide the mechanical power
> > needed to charge an XO, whatever they may use - legs/hands etc. This
> > was one of the reasons why we fundamentally wanted animals to drive
> > our solution and not be human powered.
> >
> > * Bicycle - Holden Bonwit, cced here was recently working on Bicycle
> > powered solution at a place near Delhi. I will fish for the link he
> > sent me, but they concluded that it is difficult to get enough output
> > from a single dynamo to be able charge XOs
> >
> > * Battery -- In terms of electrical design it'd be much better to
> > charge, say a 12V car battery or something rather than directly
> > charging the XOs. This would basically save us hassles of having to
> > put a current limiting circuit, and also car batteries or other Lead
> > Acid batteries can be charged with variable current, for example they
> > can sometimes get charged much faster when higher current is
> > available, but the range of current the XOs can take for charging is
> > limited. But we can get to specifics about electrical design etc later
> > on.
> >
> >
> >
> > *Rule of thumb -- Whatever you may design, remember, as a simple rule
> > of thumb, that from the alternator you may use, you'd need to provide
> > each XO laptop about 1.5A of current at 12V for about 2hours to charge
> > the battery from empty to full.
> >
> >
> > I hope these help in some way. Please let me know if I can provide any
> > other useful information. It would be my suggestion to plan out the
> > power solution as much as in detail as possible before implementing
> > it, it would save you problems that you might face later on!
> >
> >
> > best regards
> > Arjun
> >
> >
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 14:05:32 -0400
> > From: "info at olpc-peru.info" <info at olpc-peru.info>
> > Subject: Re: [Peripherals] [support-gang] Alternitive Power for
> > Developing Countries
> > To: Mel Chua <mel at melchua.com>
> > Cc: Yama Ploskonka <yama at netoso.com>, peripherals at lists.laptop.org,
> > "Community Support Volunteers -- who help respond to \"help AT
> > laptop.org\"" <support-gang at lists.laptop.org>
> > Message-ID: <481F4C6C.7010604 at olpc-peru.info>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > Hello Mel and all the people on the peripherals list,
> >
> > I have been discussing the issue of energy with other fellow on the OLPC.
> >
> > I am honest and I speak directly all the time: I think the solar
> > energy is not a realistic posibilitie in Peru: there is 100% sunny
> > days in the Andes JUST 6 months in a whole year. The worst moments are
> > the 4 to 5 months were some villages (located over the 3,500 meters
> > altitude) get 100% cloudy time, very cloudy, huge rainfall. According
> > to all the investigation that I have done (I can send to anyone if you
> > are
> > interested) the solar devices can provide from 5% to 20% IF there is
> > not a sunny day. That is a BIG problem.
> >
> > My best understanding, based on previous experience when I have work
> > for a mining company is to build a mechanical device: human driven,
> > leg driven. But not a bycecle. We have built it before but it was
> > without "cost" restrictions. It is based on a spinning wheel (I have
> > many here at my sight). But when I have put "cost" as a variable to
> > take in account then I have got the next ideas:
> >
> > a) Using alternators, in Peru, is expensive. Each alternator cost
> > US$300 aprox.
> > b) We need to import some magnets and assembly the alternator by
> > ourselves. The kids on the villages can do it as part of the
> > "experience". We must provide the alternators, the copper wire, the
> > circuit and components for the rectifier, and... the battery (battery
> > is other hard issue... short live... expensive). Assembly this "home made"
> > alternator, connecting to the spinning wheel (that can need a double
> > wheel or a "pulley" chain) can be an improvement (according to the
> > first results that we can get).
> > c) Legs are the ones that will be used. Not in a bycecle but on a
> > spinning wheel. It is totally possible generate enough energy for a
> > regular laptor with the legs, it will be easier for the XOs. Providing
> > energy for the XServers is a totally different issue, I don't agree
> > with the use of XServers. I suggest that one of the XOs MUST behave as
> > a Server (or the whole local XO network should behave as a "shared server"
> > sharing processing power... but that is a bigger task).
> > d) Need more energy? Put bigger magnets or "more" copper wire. Too
> > heavy to move? Change design: move the copper wire around the magnets.
> > Too heavy yet? Use concatenated pulleys.
> > e) Cost?: import the magnets from Korea or other asian manufacturer.
> >
> > In this moment I don't have the time to develop this pilots (because I
> > work independently, earning bread and butter for daily living, as
> > anyone, and my spare time is not good enough to attack the problem in
> > an efficient way). So I am passing this info to you (and I can discuss
> > and help more if there is someone interested in develop this prototypes).
> >
> > If we don't get an asnwer for the energy problem then we will be
> > delivering (we ARE delivering) XOs to the towns and villages that "look"
> > poor in the eyes of the occidental culture but we are forgetting that
> > in Peru the deep poverty is located in those 80,000 villages (5
> > million
> > people) with less than 100 families in each villages, without
> > electricity, less than FIVE HUNDRED dollars as total ANNUAL income for
> > the family (with the work of the father, mother and children from 6
> > years old). The goverment can not reach them (they reach JUST the
> > 5,000 other villages that contains the rest of the peruvian
> > population, 23 million people). So IF we deliver XOs just to the towns
> > that HAVE electricity then we are keeping a "STATUS QUO" that have
> > kept the same since 1821 (our "independence day" from the old spaniards
> conquerors).
> > We need to be part of the solution and not be part of the problem.
> >
> > We will develop this "energy" gadget (this or other one!) and then ALL
> > the responsible people will be more than happy to bring the XOs to
> > those villages. Then we, all, be very happy. Until then the "One
> > Laptop Per Children" will not be a dream.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Javier Rodriguez
> > Lima, Peru
> >
> > (just for the record: my other two nightmares are: internet connection
> > without any VSAT (or paying to the telephone company)... building
> > something like UUCP or a UUCP revival... and content, content, content).
> >
> >
> > Mel Chua wrote:
> >
> >
> > Moving discussion to "peripherals" list (please reply to
> > peripherals at lists.laptop.org - subscription info at
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals)...
> >
> > Chris Carrick, one of the staff members for the grassroots office in
> > Chicago this summer (our resident mechanical engineer & green guy),
> > will be working on getting many "ideas with prototypes built and
> > tested" as well as "simple instructions for replicating them made
> > available to empower the folks to generate their own power." (More of
> > a "here's how to design your *own* power solutions!" in the end, even
> > more than a "copy ours!" resource.) So your wish will be granted,
> > Caryl. :)
> >
> > -Mel
> >
> > Caryl Bigenho wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, I thought of that too. But who would ride the bike? Where would
> > they go? Would it be an exercise bike? Do these folks really need more
> > exercise? If they, or someone in the family, will be riding around
> > anyway, it would work. But if they are walking most places (as the
> > folks in the Andes tend to do), the bicycle is not a luxury they have
> > at hand. Still in some places it would probably be a great idea.
> >
> > I would love to see lots of ideas with prototypes built and tested and
> > simple instructions for replicating them made available to empower the
> > folks to generate their own power. Call it "Power Empowerment!"
> >
> > > From: akonstam at sbcglobal.net
> > > To: support-gang at lists.laptop.org
> > > Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 14:40:55 -0500 > Subject: Re: [support-gang]
> > Alternitive Power for Developing Countries > > On Sun, 2008-05-04 at
> > 08:26 -0700, Caryl Bigenho wrote:
> > > > Hi...
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I've seen that weza treadle. The price is way to high for >
> > > developing countries...it costs more than the XO! I'm looking for a
> > > > charger that can be made inexpensively from something that may be
> > > > readily available. It might even be possible to retrofit one of
> > the > > sewing machines so it could sew and charge at the same time.
> > That way > > Mom could recharge Junior's XO while she was making
> > clothes or > > whatever!
> > > >
> > > > I wil take a look a the other list and move this idea there later
> > this > > morning.
> > > >
> > > > Caryl
> > > I am sure someone has thought of this but a bicycle would make an
> > ideal > charging device.
> > > --
> > >
> > ======================================================================
> > = > Romance, like alcohol, should be enjoyed, but should not be
> > allowed to > become necessary. -- Edgar Friedenberg >
> > ======================================================================
> > = > Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail:
> > akonstam at sbcglobal.net > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > support-gang mailing list
> > > support-gang at lists.laptop.org
> > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/support-gang
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > support-gang mailing list
> > support-gang at lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/support-gang
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Peripherals mailing list
> > Peripherals at lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 14:35:57 -0700
> > From: Caryl Bigenho <cbigenho at hotmail.com>
> > Subject: [Peripherals] Alternitive Power for Developing Countries
> > To: <info at olpc-peru.info>, <peripherals at lists.laptop.org>
> > Message-ID: <BLU108-W40798E83494CA5CAB3D780CCD70 at phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> >
> > Hello Javier Rodriguez and, all the other folks on the peripherals
> > list,
> >
> > After seeing the creative things Arjun Sarwal is doing with cow-power
> > in India, I started thinking of other possibilities. I remembered my
> > grandmother's old treadle sewing machine and how excited she was to
> > have it electrified. Later, I saw many being used 35 years ago in
> > regions in the Yucatan where there was no electricity.
> >
> > Here is a link to a picture of what they look like. It is the one on
> > the left.
> >
> > http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/Trade%2DLiterature/Sewing%2DM
> > achines/
> >
> > Many of these machines still exist. i see them at estate auctions
> > every summer in Montana. There must be thousands throughout the world.
> > I have twice tried bidding on just the treadle mechanism of one on
> > ebay. I lost out on the bidding for both, but have hopes of finding
> > one in Montana this summer.
> >
> > When I get one, I intend to try to set it up as a combination
> > desk/power source to run an XO. If it works and doesn't cost too much
> > to set up, it might be something that could be replicated all over the
> > world where these old machines still exist...some probably still being
> > used without electricity.
> >
> > Javier, have you seen any of these machines in rural Peru? Are they
> > still being used to sew? Would there be a need to try to design it to
> > continue to be used as a sewing machine but to generate power at the same
> time?
> >
> > It might also be possible to manufacture a similar mechanism, at a
> > modest cost. But, the idea of recycling the old ones has a lot of
> > appeal. I was also wondering if an old automobile generator could be
> > adapted to work with it. Perhaps it would require too much torque to work.
> >
> > It may be just a crazy idea, but if cow-power works, maybe this will
> > too. If and when I do this project, I will probably need some advice from
> you folks.
> > Any suggestions for starters?
> >
> > Caryl
> >
> > BTW, Could AJ's Cow-power generator be adapted to run on Llama power?
> > How about donkey power? Goat power?
> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> > scrubbed...
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 23:30:06 +0000
> > From: "Alfonso de la Guarda" <alfonsodg at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Peripherals] Alternitive Power for Developing Countries
> > To: "Caryl Bigenho" <cbigenho at hotmail.com>
> > Cc: peripherals at lists.laptop.org
> > Message-ID:
> > <ed60564a0805051630t5deb641ap825b2b17c65495c8 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > In the COS (www.cos-la.org), we are working some months ago in some
> > options for that, specially with a portable solar panel trying to
> > reduce their cost (about 60 dollars each). The device -commercially
> > available as cell
> > charger- is really small and can charge the XO without any problems.
> > In a field test in Junin and Arahuay (Per?) the panels works great, in
> > fact, in the recent event of FLISOL in Huancayo (Junin-Peru) for the
> > OLPC project, we test the solution (commercial) between 3400 mts and 4500
> mts (Ticlio).
> > Antonio Ramirez, Carlos Reinoso and who writes now are working in our
> > breaks on this task (reduce the cost for about 25 dollars each).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2008/5/5 Caryl Bigenho <cbigenho at hotmail.com>:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello Javier Rodriguez and, all the other folks on the peripherals
> > list,
> >
> > After seeing the creative things Arjun Sarwal is doing with cow-power
> > in India, I started thinking of other possibilities. I remembered my
> > grandmother's old treadle sewing machine and how excited she was to
> > have it electrified. Later, I saw many being used 35 years ago in
> > regions in the Yucatan where there was no electricity.
> >
> > Here is a link to a picture of what they look like. It is the one on
> > the left.
> >
> >
> > http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/Trade%2DLiterature/Sewing%2DM
> > achines/
> >
> > Many of these machines still exist. i see them at estate auctions
> > every summer in Montana. There must be thousands throughout the world.
> > I have twice tried bidding on just the treadle mechanism of one on
> > ebay. I lost out on the bidding for both, but have hopes of finding
> > one in Montana this summer.
> >
> > When I get one, I intend to try to set it up as a combination
> > desk/power source to run an XO. If it works and doesn't cost too much
> > to set up, it might be something that could be replicated all over the
> > world where these old machines still exist...some probably still being
> > used without electricity.
> >
> > Javier, have you seen any of these machines in rural Peru? Are they
> > still being used to sew? Would there be a need to try to design it to
> > continue to be used as a sewing machine but to generate power at the same
> time?
> >
> > It might also be possible to manufacture a similar mechanism, at a
> > modest cost. But, the idea of recycling the old ones has a lot of
> > appeal. I was also wondering if an old automobile generator could be
> > adapted to work with it. Perhaps it would require too much torque to work.
> >
> > It may be just a crazy idea, but if cow-power works, maybe this will too.
> > If and when I do this project, I will probably need some advice from
> > you folks. Any suggestions for starters?
> >
> > Caryl
> >
> > BTW, Could AJ's Cow-power generator be adapted to run on Llama power?
> > How about donkey power? Goat power?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Peripherals mailing list
> > Peripherals at lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > --------------------------------
> > Alfonso de la Guarda
> > COS
> > www.cos-la.org
> > www.delaguarda.info
> > Telef. 97550914
> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Peripherals mailing list
> > Peripherals at lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals
> >
> >
> > End of Peripherals Digest, Vol 6, Issue 3
> > *****************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Arjun Sarwal
> http://dev.laptop.org/~arjs
>
>
--
Arjun Sarwal
http://dev.laptop.org/~arjs
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