Sin asunto
Vie Jul 1 06:39:56 EDT 2011
in other language wikis can be followed from the left hand menu bar.<br>
In this way, even a non-fluent language speaker can probably figure<br>
out the proper local instrument name from the context / title of the<br>
other language wiki page.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Actually I am=
more on Caryl side here. English is for better or worst a very vage langua=
ge, not as much as japanese, but is actually hard to get addaptations for i=
nstruments that are also not very clear. French would be more strict langua=
ge and more similar to Spanish, Italian, Portuguese etc. Example is the chi=
mes itself, for spanish you will need to add more specific qualifications t=
o get it right "tubular bells/campanas tubulares" to actually get=
the specific instrument.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>However the POs are different from language to languge:=
string number 159 in spanish is "Slap / Bofetada" while in Itali=
an and French is "Band one gain". So here is another thing to con=
sider when doing cross language queries.</div>
<div><a href=3D"http://pootle.sugarlabs.org/es/honey/TamTamSynthLab.activit=
y.po?item=3D159&view_mode=3Dtranslate">http://pootle.sugarlabs.org/es/h=
oney/TamTamSynthLab.activity.po?item=3D159&view_mode=3Dtranslate</a></d=
iv><div>
<a href=3D"http://pootle.sugarlabs.org/it/honey/TamTamSynthLab.activity.po?=
item=3D159&view_mode=3Dtranslate">http://pootle.sugarlabs.org/it/honey/=
TamTamSynthLab.activity.po?item=3D159&view_mode=3Dtranslate</a></div><d=
iv><a href=3D"http://pootle.sugarlabs.org/fr/honey/TamTamSynthLab.activity.=
po?item=3D159&view_mode=3Dtranslate">http://pootle.sugarlabs.org/fr/hon=
ey/TamTamSynthLab.activity.po?item=3D159&view_mode=3Dtranslate</a></div=
>
<div><br></div><div>More to the point, I did a search on this and couldnt f=
ind "Slap" on any of the FR, IT POs.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br>
If there is no matching article in your language's wikipedia version,<b=
r>
this is an opportunity to enhance that wiki by adding an article by<br>
localizing and adapting the English version. =C2=A0This approach has the<br=
>
further benefit of driving contributions to the upstream wiki on<br>
musical instruments which can flow back down in the form of a better<br>
native language wikislice being developed as a content bundle for<br></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div><div>Is a good idea but also a huge task that is out =
of the scope of improving the activity itself. I would go the other way and=
is to try to idenfity expert sites (community googling) and index them to =
create a glossary or terminology that is more focused on the muscial lingo.=
As developers the learning curve to document musical instruments is larger=
than to focus on the localization itself.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>Maybe asking around CEIBAL we can get some music teache=
rs interested in participating with us.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex;">
music education enhancement, also leveraging the other contributors to<br>
that language's wiki.<br>
<br>
Does that approach make sense to you?<br>
<br>
cjl<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Alexandro Colorado <<a href=3D"mailto:j=
za en openoffice.org">jza en openoffice.org</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Caryl Bigenho <<a href=3D"mailto:cb=
igenho en hotmail.com">cbigenho en hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hi...<br>
>> I haven't looked a the terms in question, however I would like=
to point<br>
>> out that there is a standard set of names for musical instruments.=
While<br>
>> musical scores will often contain more than one, it might be nice =
to<br>
>> standardize the instruments in TamTam, possibly using the Italian =
terms as<br>
>> musicians everywhere will understand them. Why shouldn't child=
ren everywhere<br>
>> also learn them?<br>
>> =C2=A0For local folk instruments, the local name where the instrum=
ent<br>
>> originates would be most suitable. =C2=A0There would be some probl=
em with overlap<br>
>> on some names, for example, "Flauto" is flute in Italian=
, and one of the<br>
>> indiginous Andean wind instruments is called "Flauta". =
=C2=A0The "Pan Pipes" as<br>
>> we call them in English should properly be called "Samponia&q=
uot; or "Zamponia"<br>
>> as it is called the Andean nations. =C2=A0Music is known as the &q=
uot;universal<br>
>> language", let's work to keep it that way.<br>
><br>
> That is also a practice I have gone through many times to fix terms, h=
owever<br>
> I think the main point is that at least for the spanish project, we do=
need<br>
> good sources of musical instrument enciclopedias (wikipedia is very ba=
sic).<br>
> And stop doing literal translations of some of the things.<br>
> If we have good web collections of musicakl instruments it would be ea=
sier<br>
> to get the lingo right for the music "subject".<br>
> Music sound might be universal language, music instrument naming howev=
er,<br>
> are very different and specific.<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> Caryl =C2=A0(M.A. Music Education... long time ago!)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> From: <a href=3D"mailto:cjlhomeaddress en gmail.com">cjlhomeaddress en g=
mail.com</a><br>
>> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:20:18 -0400<br>
>> To: <a href=3D"mailto:jza en openoffice.org">jza en openoffice.org</a><b=
r>
>> CC: <a href=3D"mailto:alsroot en member.fsf.org">alsroot en member.fsf.o=
rg</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:localization en lists.laptop.org">localization en lists=
.laptop.org</a>;<br>
>> <a href=3D"mailto:dirakx en gmail.com">dirakx en gmail.com</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org">olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org</a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Sur] [Localization] TamTam activity Spanish locales<=
br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Alexandro Colorado <<a href=
=3D"mailto:jza en openoffice.org">jza en openoffice.org</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > I found many issues with the localization for TamTam, in part=
for maybe<br>
>> > the<br>
>> > lack of knowledge on foreign musical instruments and in part =
because is<br>
>> > just<br>
>> > based off automated translations that avoid context.<br>
>><br>
>> ><br>
>> > A couple of examples are:<br>
>> > slap =3D as in slap percussion. In spanish was translated as =
"Bofetada"<br>
>> > which<br>
>> > mostly means slap in the face or for us in Urban dictionary, =
"bitch<br>
>> > slappin'" :D<br>
>><br>
>> > However I in context is odd to slap your legs or slap that as=
s with the<br>
>> > term<br>
>> > "Bofetada".<br>
>> > Other issues are instruments that don't really translate =
well like the<br>
>> > plate<br>
>> > instrument -- Chimes which is translated as "Bells"=
however the chimes<br>
>><br>
>> > instrument doesnt really resembles any bells (Campandas). Spe=
cially<br>
>> > since is<br>
>> > a mixture between ximbal and a triangle instrument.<br>
>> > Would want to generate a report of all these fuzzy terms and =
dump it<br>
>> > into<br>
>><br>
>> > something more people can discuss on a more public list. Feel=
free to<br>
>> > contribute the terminology.<br>
>> > --<br>
>> > Alexandro Colorado<br>
>> > OpenOffice.org Espa=C3=B1ol<br>
>> > <a href=3D"http://es.openoffice.org" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/es.openoffice.org</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Alexandro (jza),<br>
>><br>
>> You are certainly not the only person who has noticed the difficul=
ty<br>
>> of localizing some of the sound names of the TamTam tooltips, but =
it<br>
>> is always good to bring such discussions to the list.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I recently worked with Rafael Ortiz (dirakx) and Aleksey Lim (alsr=
oot)<br>
>> to make some suggestions to make it easier for localizers to give =
good<br>
>> translations by adding additional developer's comments. =C2=A0=
(see attached<br>
>><br>
>> spreadsheet and this recent commit).<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> <a href=3D"http://git.sugarlabs.org/tamtam/tamtam/commit/b49b14cf3=
94f06e7ab788ff5ab9e521116a2a368" target=3D"_blank">http://git.sugarlabs.org=
/tamtam/tamtam/commit/b49b14cf394f06e7ab788ff5ab9e521116a2a368</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> In addition, alsroot and dirakx are experimenting with combining t=
he<br>
>> TamTam strings into a single PO file so there is not quite so much=
<br>
>> duplicate effort required to do all four TamTam Suite activities.<=
br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I am not claiming that my suggested re-namings are authoritative a=
nd I<br>
>> believe that different ears can hear the sounds a little different=
ly,<br>
>> so I would be happy to discuss alternatives to the suggested chang=
es I<br>
>><br>
>> proposed. =C2=A0This list is a fine place to do tha =C2=A0as it is=
really<br>
>> related to internationalization (as opposed to activity function).=
<br>
>> This is also a good time to do that as the code is getting some i1=
8n<br>
>> attention anyway and consensus changes can be made relatively easi=
ly.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I won't comment on specific string translations into Spanish, =
I'll<br>
>> leave that to native speakers, I'm just trying to make it easi=
er for<br>
>> all localizers to provide a quality translation of these relative =
new<br>
>><br>
>> string additions to the TamTam suite.<br>
>><br>
>> Warmest regards,<br>
>><br>
>> cjl<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________ Lista olpc-Sur<br>
>> <a href=3D"mailto:olpc-Sur en lists.laptop.org">olpc-Sur en lists.laptop=
.org</a> <a href=3D"http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Alexandro Colorado<br>
> OpenOffice.org Espa=C3=B1ol<br>
> <a href=3D"http://es.openoffice.org" target=3D"_blank">http://es.openo=
ffice.org</a><br>
><br>
><br>
</div></div>> _______________________________________________<br>
> Localization mailing list<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Localization en lists.laptop.org">Localization en lists.la=
ptop.org</a><br>
> <a href=3D"http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/localization" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/localization</a><br>
><br>
><br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><b>Alexandro Colorado</=
b><br><b><span style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 153)">Open</span><span style=3D"col=
or:rgb(0, 0, 0)">Office.org</span></b> Espa=C3=B1ol<br><a href=3D"http://es=
.openoffice.org" target=3D"_blank">http://es.openoffice.org</a><br>
<br>
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