Sin asunto

Vie Jul 1 06:39:56 EDT 2011

in other language wikis can be followed from the left hand menu bar.<br>
In this way, even a non-fluent language speaker can probably figure<br>
out the proper local instrument name from the context / title of the<br>
other language wiki page.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Actually I am=
 more on Caryl side here. English is for better or worst a very vage langua=
ge, not as much as japanese, but is actually hard to get addaptations for i=
nstruments that are also not very clear. French would be more strict langua=
ge and more similar to Spanish, Italian, Portuguese etc. Example is the chi=
mes itself, for spanish you will need to add more specific qualifications t=
o get it right &quot;tubular bells/campanas tubulares&quot; to actually get=
 the specific instrument.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>However the POs are different from language to languge:=
 string number 159 in spanish is &quot;Slap / Bofetada&quot; while in Itali=
an and French is &quot;Band one gain&quot;. So here is another thing to con=
sider when doing cross language queries.</div>
<div><a href=3D"
<a href=3D"
iv><a href=3D"
<div><br></div><div>More to the point, I did a search on this and couldnt f=
ind &quot;Slap&quot; on any of the FR, IT POs.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=

If there is no matching article in your language&#39;s wikipedia version,<b=
this is an opportunity to enhance that wiki by adding an article by<br>
localizing and adapting the English version. =C2=A0This approach has the<br=
further benefit of driving contributions to the upstream wiki on<br>
musical instruments which can flow back down in the form of a better<br>
native language wikislice being developed as a content bundle for<br></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div><div>Is a good idea but also a huge task that is out =
of the scope of improving the activity itself. I would go the other way and=
 is to try to idenfity expert sites (community googling) and index them to =
create a glossary or terminology that is more focused on the muscial lingo.=
 As developers the learning curve to document musical instruments is larger=
 than to focus on the localization itself.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>Maybe asking around CEIBAL we can get some music teache=
rs interested in participating with us.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =

music education enhancement, also leveraging the other contributors to<br>
that language&#39;s wiki.<br>
Does that approach make sense to you?<br>
<div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Alexandro Colorado &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:j=
za en">jza en</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Caryl Bigenho &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cb=
igenho en">cbigenho en</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Hi...<br>
&gt;&gt; I haven&#39;t looked a the terms in question, however I would like=
 to point<br>
&gt;&gt; out that there is a standard set of names for musical instruments.=
&gt;&gt; musical scores will often contain more than one, it might be nice =
&gt;&gt; standardize the instruments in TamTam, possibly using the Italian =
terms as<br>
&gt;&gt; musicians everywhere will understand them. Why shouldn&#39;t child=
ren everywhere<br>
&gt;&gt; also learn them?<br>
&gt;&gt; =C2=A0For local folk instruments, the local name where the instrum=
&gt;&gt; originates would be most suitable. =C2=A0There would be some probl=
em with overlap<br>
&gt;&gt; on some names, for example, &quot;Flauto&quot; is flute in Italian=
, and one of the<br>
&gt;&gt; indiginous Andean wind instruments is called &quot;Flauta&quot;. =
=C2=A0The &quot;Pan Pipes&quot; as<br>
&gt;&gt; we call them in English should properly be called &quot;Samponia&q=
uot; or &quot;Zamponia&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; as it is called the Andean nations. =C2=A0Music is known as the &q=
&gt;&gt; language&quot;, let&#39;s work to keep it that way.<br>
&gt; That is also a practice I have gone through many times to fix terms, h=
&gt; I think the main point is that at least for the spanish project, we do=
&gt; good sources of musical instrument enciclopedias (wikipedia is very ba=
&gt; And stop doing literal translations of some of the things.<br>
&gt; If we have good web collections of musicakl instruments it would be ea=
&gt; to get the lingo right for the music &quot;subject&quot;.<br>
&gt; Music sound might be universal language, music instrument naming howev=
&gt; are very different and specific.<br>
&gt;&gt; Caryl =C2=A0(M.A. Music Education... long time ago!)<br>
&gt;&gt; From: <a href=3D"mailto:cjlhomeaddress en">cjlhomeaddress en g=</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:20:18 -0400<br>
&gt;&gt; To: <a href=3D"mailto:jza en">jza en</a><b=
&gt;&gt; CC: <a href=3D"mailto:alsroot en">alsroot en member.fsf.o=
rg</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:localization en">localization en lists=</a>;<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:dirakx en">dirakx en</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:olpc-sur en">olpc-sur en</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [Sur] [Localization] TamTam activity Spanish locales<=
&gt;&gt; On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Alexandro Colorado &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:jza en">jza en</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; I found many issues with the localization for TamTam, in part=
 for maybe<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; the<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; lack of knowledge on foreign musical instruments and in part =
because is<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; just<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; based off automated translations that avoid context.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; A couple of examples are:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; slap =3D as in slap percussion. In spanish was translated as =
&gt;&gt; &gt; which<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; mostly means slap in the face or for us in Urban dictionary, =
&gt;&gt; &gt; slappin&#39;&quot; :D<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; However I in context is odd to slap your legs or slap that as=
s with the<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; term<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; &quot;Bofetada&quot;.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Other issues are instruments that don&#39;t really translate =
well like the<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; plate<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; instrument -- Chimes which is translated as &quot;Bells&quot;=
 however the chimes<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; instrument doesnt really resembles any bells (Campandas). Spe=
&gt;&gt; &gt; since is<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; a mixture between ximbal and a triangle instrument.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Would want to generate a report of all these fuzzy terms and =
dump it<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; into<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; something more people can discuss on a more public list. Feel=
 free to<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; contribute the terminology.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; --<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Alexandro Colorado<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Espa=C3=B1ol<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
&gt;&gt; Alexandro (jza),<br>
&gt;&gt; You are certainly not the only person who has noticed the difficul=
&gt;&gt; of localizing some of the sound names of the TamTam tooltips, but =
&gt;&gt; is always good to bring such discussions to the list.<br>
&gt;&gt; I recently worked with Rafael Ortiz (dirakx) and Aleksey Lim (alsr=
&gt;&gt; to make some suggestions to make it easier for localizers to give =
&gt;&gt; translations by adding additional developer&#39;s comments. =C2=A0=
(see attached<br>
&gt;&gt; spreadsheet and this recent commit).<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"
94f06e7ab788ff5ab9e521116a2a368" target=3D"_blank">
&gt;&gt; In addition, alsroot and dirakx are experimenting with combining t=
&gt;&gt; TamTam strings into a single PO file so there is not quite so much=
&gt;&gt; duplicate effort required to do all four TamTam Suite activities.<=
&gt;&gt; I am not claiming that my suggested re-namings are authoritative a=
nd I<br>
&gt;&gt; believe that different ears can hear the sounds a little different=
&gt;&gt; so I would be happy to discuss alternatives to the suggested chang=
es I<br>
&gt;&gt; proposed. =C2=A0This list is a fine place to do tha =C2=A0as it is=
&gt;&gt; related to internationalization (as opposed to activity function).=
&gt;&gt; This is also a good time to do that as the code is getting some i1=
&gt;&gt; attention anyway and consensus changes can be made relatively easi=
&gt;&gt; I won&#39;t comment on specific string translations into Spanish, =
&gt;&gt; leave that to native speakers, I&#39;m just trying to make it easi=
er for<br>
&gt;&gt; all localizers to provide a quality translation of these relative =
&gt;&gt; string additions to the TamTam suite.<br>
&gt;&gt; Warmest regards,<br>
&gt;&gt; cjl<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________ Lista olpc-Sur<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:olpc-Sur en">olpc-Sur en lists.laptop=
.org</a> <a href=3D"" target=3D"_b=
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Alexandro Colorado<br>
&gt; Espa=C3=B1ol<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"" target=3D"_blank">http://es.openo=</a><br>
</div></div>&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Localization mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Localization en">Localization en</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"" target=3D"_b=
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><b>Alexandro Colorado</=
b><br><b><span style=3D"color:rgb(0, 0, 153)">Open</span><span style=3D"col=
or:rgb(0, 0, 0)"></span></b> Espa=C3=B1ol<br><a href=3D"http://es=" target=3D"_blank"></a><br>


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