[Sur] [OLPC-Peru] Windows en OLPC XO Peru

Mar Sep 16 14:47:47 EDT 2008

Daniel, yo estoy de acuerdo con Daniel Bender, sobre todo en el punto de la
libertad de oportunidades.
Entregarles Windows en las XO o cualquier otra herramienta privativa está
condicionando el futuro de estos niños, de sus comunidades y del pais en el
que luego se radiquen.

Es importante poder ver que un niño que usa Windows por toda su infancia
solo va a saber usar Windows. Y que hay cuando el quiera valerse por si
mismo, ¿debe de pagar una licencia a Microsoft para hacer su trabajo?

Es bastante claro desde mi punto de vista, y sería una atrocidad entregar
las XO con windows.

Marcel

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 6:06 PM, <olpc-sur-request en lists.laptop.org> wrote:

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>   1. Re: [OLPC-Peru] Windows en OLPC XO Peru (Daniel Ajoy)
>   2. Re: [OLPC-Peru] Windows en OLPC XO Peru (Walter Bender)
>   3. Re: Pagina de Etoys se renueva (luis ACEVEDO)
>   4. Re: [OLPC-Peru] Windows en OLPC XO Peru (Daniel Ajoy)
>   5. Re: [OLPC-Peru] Windows en OLPC XO Peru
>      (rosamel norma ramirez mendez)
>   6. Re: [OLPC-Peru] Windows en OLPC XO Peru (Walter Bender)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:11:27 -0500
> From: "Daniel Ajoy" <da.ajoy en gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sur] [OLPC-Peru] Windows en OLPC XO Peru
> To: "OLPC en castellano para usuarios, docentes, voluntarios y
>        administradores" <olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org>, OLPC_peru
>        <peru en lists.laptop.org>
> Message-ID: <op.uhi5xdtn0gup8g en daniel-pc>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
>
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:06:43 -0500, Walter Bender <walter.bender en gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > You can install both Java and Adobe Flash on Linux systems as well as
> > Windows systems, so it is a misleading to argue that is a reason to
> > switch to Windows. What would be a helpful exercise would be to
> > itemize those Windows programs that are missing from the Linux
> > repertoire that are essential to learning. Perhaps we can work on FOSS
> > ports so that we can "eat our cake and have it too."
>
> En la practica casi no importa qué se *podría* instalar en las laptops sino
> qué *viene* instalado en las laptops.
>
> La otra cuestión es: ¿necesitan los maestros YouTube?
> Mi respuesta es: no sé.
>
> Sólo sé que es una de las pocas cosas que he leido que piden.
>
> Creo que no estoy equivocado al resumir que el uso que se les da a las
> laptops es:
>
> * Los niños navegan y descargan cosas.
> * Los maestros piden a los niños hacer actividades con Write y Paint.
>
> (Me gustaría que Logo pudiese cambiar esta situación un poco ya que varios
> maestros fueron entrenados en el uso de Logo en América Latina, quizá ellos
> podrían ayudar a resucitar algo de esa cultura)
>
> ===========
>
> In practice it doesn't matter much what *could* be installed in the
> laptops, but what *comes* preinstalled with the laptops.
>
> The other issue is: do teachers need YouTube?
>
> My answer is: I don't know.
>
> I just know that that is one of the few things they have asked for.
>
> I don't think I'm mistaken it summarizing the use of the laptops in this
> way:
>
> * children surf and download
> * Teachers ask students to work with Write and Paint.
>
> (I wish Logo could change this situation a bit because a few teachers were
> trained in using Logos in Latinamerica, so they could help resurrect some of
> that culture)
> ===========
>
>
> > Regarding Logo, there is a great Logo environment being developed by
> > Brian Harvey for Sugar.
>
> That would indeed be a great addition.
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:19:34 -0400
> From: "Walter Bender" <walter.bender en gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sur] [OLPC-Peru] Windows en OLPC XO Peru
> To: "OLPC en castellano para usuarios, docentes,        voluntarios y
>        administradores" <olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org>
> Cc: OLPC_peru <peru en lists.laptop.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <fd535e260809150919q383ec370jaff4bbea5766c127 en mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Daniel Ajoy <da.ajoy en gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:06:43 -0500, Walter Bender <
> walter.bender en gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You can install both Java and Adobe Flash on Linux systems as well as
> >> Windows systems, so it is a misleading to argue that is a reason to
> >> switch to Windows. What would be a helpful exercise would be to
> >> itemize those Windows programs that are missing from the Linux
> >> repertoire that are essential to learning. Perhaps we can work on FOSS
> >> ports so that we can "eat our cake and have it too."
> >
> > En la practica casi no importa qué se *podría* instalar en las laptops
> sino qué *viene* instalado en las laptops.
> >
> > La otra cuestión es: ¿necesitan los maestros YouTube?
> > Mi respuesta es: no sé.
> >
> > Sólo sé que es una de las pocas cosas que he leido que piden.
> >
> > Creo que no estoy equivocado al resumir que el uso que se les da a las
> laptops es:
> >
> > * Los niños navegan y descargan cosas.
> > * Los maestros piden a los niños hacer actividades con Write y Paint.
> >
> > (Me gustaría que Logo pudiese cambiar esta situación un poco ya que
> varios maestros fueron entrenados en el uso de Logo en América Latina, quizá
> ellos podrían ayudar a resucitar algo de esa cultura)
> >
> > ===========
> >
> > In practice it doesn't matter much what *could* be installed in the
> laptops, but what *comes* preinstalled with the laptops.
> >
> > The other issue is: do teachers need YouTube?
> >
> > My answer is: I don't know.
> >
> > I just know that that is one of the few things they have asked for.
> >
> > I don't think I'm mistaken it summarizing the use of the laptops in this
> way:
> >
> > * children surf and download
> > * Teachers ask students to work with Write and Paint.
> >
> > (I wish Logo could change this situation a bit because a few teachers
> were trained in using Logos in Latinamerica, so they could help resurrect
> some of that culture)
> > ===========
> >
> >
> >> Regarding Logo, there is a great Logo environment being developed by
> >> Brian Harvey for Sugar.
> >
> > That would indeed be a great addition.
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lista olpc-Sur
> > olpc-Sur en lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur
> >
>
> I don't understand the point you are trying to make re Java and Flash.
> If the MoE thinks it is important, they are welcome preinstall these
> tools regardless of Windows vs Linux. But you raise it as an issue in
> a discussion about Windows on the Laptop, as if it is an advantage to
> running Windows.
>
> In regard to your characterization of what the children are currently
> doing with the laptops, I have seen much richer interactions, but more
> important than what they are doing now, we should be asking, what will
> they be doing 6 months from now? 6 years from now? How will the
> freedom to appropriate they learning experience and learning platform
> impact their long-term opportunities? How will the dependence on
> proprietary tools impact their ability to become entrepreneurial in
> their thinking and their actions?
>
> And again I ask, what are great tools that are missing in the
> GNU/Linux world we should be making available?
>
> regards.
>
> -walter
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:38:21 +0000
> From: luis ACEVEDO <patitoacevedo en hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sur] Pagina de Etoys se renueva
> To: "OLPC en castellano para usuarios, docentes,        voluntarios y
>        administradores" <olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY117-W443F56C5FBFDC925C497C3A7520 en phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Hola:
>
> Desde el reporte semanal de la lista de Sugar Labs se informa que
> Etoys se renueva:
>                Kim Rose informa que el Equipo de Etoys ha lanzado
>  esta semana el nuevo diseño de su página web  http://squeakland.org/
>  Hay mucho contenido y tutoriales mejorados. Esta nueva versión de Etoys
>  esta disponible para linux, mac y windows la cual es totalmente compatible
>  con la versión existente en los xo. (N. de T.: Los archivos generados en
> cualquiera de estas plataformas pueden ser ejecutados/editados en el Etoys
>  de los OLPC.) Los proyectos de ejemplo  incrustados en la página web
>  se pueden ver on-line usando el plug-in squeakland para navegadores.
>  En las XO, visitar los projectos de ejemplo los descargará automaticamente
> al diario (journal).
>
> Pato Acevedo
> www.patricioacevedo.blogspot.com
> www.ucpn.cl
>
>  Texto original
>
> Etoys refresh: Kim Rose reports that the Etoys team launched the
> redesigned website this week. There is much
> improved content and tutorials. It features a new Etoys release for
> Macintosh, Windows, and Linux which is compatible with the OLPC
> version now. Example projects are embedded in the website and viewable
> with the Squeakland browser plugin. On the XO, visiting these projects
> downloads them to the Journal instead.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:27:17 -0500
> From: "Daniel Ajoy" <da.ajoy en gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sur] [OLPC-Peru] Windows en OLPC XO Peru
> To: "OLPC en castellano para usuarios, docentes, voluntarios y
>        administradores" <olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org>, OLPC_peru
>        <peru en lists.laptop.org>
> Message-ID: <op.uhjezrnv0gup8g en daniel-pc>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
>
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:19:34 -0500, Walter Bender <walter.bender en gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I don't understand the point you are trying to make re Java and Flash.
> > If the MoE thinks it is important, they are welcome preinstall these
> > tools regardless of Windows vs Linux. But you raise it as an issue in
> > a discussion about Windows on the Laptop, as if it is an advantage to
> > running Windows.
>
> My point is:
>
> * If teachers consider having YouTube and applets educationally valuable
> (In this discussion list teachers don't ask much but one of the few things
> that they have asked for is YouTube. I personally don't think that YouTube
> is very educationally valuable. )
>
> * And if the Windows laptops come ready for YouTube and applets (versus
> current Sugar laptops that don't come ready for YouTube and applets)
>
> then that is a plus for the Windows laptops.
>
> > And again I ask, what are great tools that are missing in the
> > GNU/Linux world we should be making available?
>
> I think the Linux world has great tools, even *enough* great tools.
>
> Eg. the Linux world has many spreadsheets. Are they available for the
> laptop?
>
>
> > How will the
> > freedom to appropriate they learning experience and learning platform
> > impact their long-term opportunities?
>
> I don't see how children working with windows laptops will be less free to
> appropriate their learning experience, except that the Sugar laptops have
> peer to peer chat and (some kind of) sharing out of the box.
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:03:44 +0000
> From: rosamel norma ramirez mendez <rosanor43 en hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sur] [OLPC-Peru] Windows en OLPC XO Peru
> To: "OLPC en castellano para usuarios, docentes,        voluntarios y
>        administradores" <olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org>
> Message-ID: <BAY102-W38C6E05E2DB7276425C55BB4520 en phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Siempre son molestas las generalizaciones de todo tipo, no somos todos los
> maestros que solo hacemos escribir y dibujar en las laptops, los habemos
> inetresados en usos mas profundos y en investigar en equipos conformados
> desde la diversidad, que se puede hacer desde los programas que trae, seria
> interesante relevar datos y recursos humanos antes de opinar tan ligeramente
> sobre "los maestros".
> Rosamel Ramirez> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:11:27 -0500> To:
> olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org; peru en lists.laptop.org> From: da.ajoy en gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sur] [OLPC-Peru] Windows en OLPC XO Peru> > On Mon, 15 Sep
> 2008 10:06:43 -0500, Walter Bender <walter.bender en gmail.com> wrote:> > >
> You can install both Java and Adobe Flash on Linux systems as well as> >
> Windows systems, so it is a misleading to argue that is a reason to> >
> switch to Windows. What would be a helpful exercise would be to> > itemize
> those Windows programs that are missing from the Linux> > repertoire that
> are essential to learning. Perhaps we can work on FOSS> > ports so that we
> can "eat our cake and have it too."> > En la practica casi no importa qué se
> *podría* instalar en las laptops sino qué *viene* instalado en las laptops.>
> > La otra cuestión es: ¿necesitan los maestros YouTube?> Mi respuesta es: no
> sé.> > Sólo sé que es una de las pocas cosas que he leido que piden.> > Creo
> que no estoy equivocado al resumir que el uso que se les da a las laptops
> es:> > * Los niños navegan y descargan cosas.> * Los maestros piden a los
> niños hacer actividades con Write y Paint.> > (Me gustaría que Logo pudiese
> cambiar esta situación un poco ya que varios maestros fueron entrenados en
> el uso de Logo en América Latina, quizá ellos podrían ayudar a resucitar
> algo de esa cultura)> > ===========> > In practice it doesn't matter much
> what *could* be installed in the laptops, but what *comes* preinstalled with
> the laptops.> > The other issue is: do teachers need YouTube?> > My answer
> is: I don't know.> > I just know that that is one of the few things they
> have asked for.> > I don't think I'm mistaken it summarizing the use of the
> laptops in this way:> > * children surf and download> * Teachers ask
> students to work with Write and Paint.> > (I wish Logo could change this
> situation a bit because a few teachers were trained in using Logos in
> Latinamerica, so they could help resurrect some of that culture)>
> ===========> > > > Regarding Logo, there is a great Logo environment being
> developed by> > Brian Harvey for Sugar.> > That would indeed be a great
> addition.> > Daniel> > _______________________________________________>
> Lista olpc-Sur> olpc-Sur en lists.laptop.org>
> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur
> _________________________________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:06:09 -0400
> From: "Walter Bender" <walter.bender en gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sur] [OLPC-Peru] Windows en OLPC XO Peru
> To: "OLPC en castellano para usuarios, docentes,        voluntarios y
>        administradores" <olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org>
> Cc: OLPC_peru <peru en lists.laptop.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <fd535e260809151306h4816ef1ayd50e3b9d42343239 en mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Daniel Ajoy <da.ajoy en gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:19:34 -0500, Walter Bender <
> walter.bender en gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I don't understand the point you are trying to make re Java and Flash.
> >> If the MoE thinks it is important, they are welcome preinstall these
> >> tools regardless of Windows vs Linux. But you raise it as an issue in
> >> a discussion about Windows on the Laptop, as if it is an advantage to
> >> running Windows.
> >
> > My point is:
> >
> > * If teachers consider having YouTube and applets educationally valuable
> (In this discussion list teachers don't ask much but one of the few things
> that they have asked for is YouTube. I personally don't think that YouTube
> is very educationally valuable. )
> >
> > * And if the Windows laptops come ready for YouTube and applets (versus
> current Sugar laptops that don't come ready for YouTube and applets)
> >
> > then that is a plus for the Windows laptops.
>
> The fact that the current Sugar laptops "don't come ready for YouTube
> and applets" is a local choice, not one inherent in the system, so to
> argue that one should switch to Windows laptops for something readily
> available on *any* laptop seems a bit of a stretch.
>
> >> And again I ask, what are great tools that are missing in the
> >> GNU/Linux world we should be making available?
> >
> > I think the Linux world has great tools, even *enough* great tools.
> >
> > Eg. the Linux world has many spreadsheets. Are they available for the
> laptop?
>
> Dan Bricklin, the inventor of the spreadsheet has built a spreadsheet
> for Sugar. Also, you can run gnumeric inside the X Activity (I am
> testing it right now).
>
> >> How will the
> >> freedom to appropriate they learning experience and learning platform
> >> impact their long-term opportunities?
> >
> > I don't see how children working with windows laptops will be less free
> to appropriate their learning experience, except that the Sugar laptops have
> peer to peer chat and (some kind of) sharing out of the box.
>
> Perhaps if the Sugar environment, which includes not just sharing and
> chat, but a model of discovery and appropriation as a fundamental
> component--we chose Python as a base language so that the teachers and
> children would be able to appropriate all aspects of the platform.
>
> Transparency is empowering. Free and open-source software (and
> content) gives children?and their teachers? the freedom to reshape,
> reinvent, and reapply. I don't see how a Windows-based platform could
> ever achieve this: it goes against the culture.
>
> -walter
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> olpc-Sur mailing list
> olpc-Sur en lists.laptop.org
> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur
>
>
> Fin de Resumen de olpc-Sur, Vol 5, Envío 19
> *******************************************
>
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