[OLPC-DE] [Olpcaustria] Projektvorstellung: CompetitiveLearning Within A Mesh Network

Christoph Derndorfer e0425826 at student.tuwien.ac.at
Di Mär 9 06:01:27 EST 2010


Stefan, Johannes,

ich kenne kein einziges OLPC Deployment wo das Mesh-Netzwerk der XOs im 
grösseren Stile im Einsatz ist, da es wie gesagt einige Probleme damit 
gibt. Siehe diesbezüglich auch diese Mail von OLPC's Ed McNierney 
(http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2009-October/026060.html):

"Mesh networking is exceptionally difficult to use properly on an XO-1, 
  and I'm not aware of any real-world installations of it."

bzw. eine spätere Mail von Martin Langhoff (School Server Entwickler) 
zur Roadmap was Mesh-Support betrifft (vA im Kontext des XO-1.5):

"Yes. As you describe, we're sidestepping 802.11s, preferring a simpler 
approach based on ad-hoc networking for "under a tree", and traditional 
802.11a/b/g in spots where an AP is available. And we're encouraging 
people to tinker with alternative implementations -- such as open80211s 
-- but it's not in our roadmap."

Mesh-Netzwerke allgemein (Funkfeuer, etc.) funktionieren, beim XO sieht 
die Sache leider aus diversen Gründen anders aus. Da es hier darum 
geht, eine Software bzw. Plattform zu entwickeln die natürlich 
möglichst allgemein verwendbar sein sollte macht es mMn daher keinen 
wirklichen Sinn allzusehr auf das Mesh-Netzwerk zu setzen.

Lg,
Christoph

Zitat von Johannes Ponader <johannesponader at googlemail.com>:

> Super, danke für die Hinweise! Das wäre schon toll für das Projekt, wenn das
> Meshing klappt.
>
> Dürfen wir dich bei Haken und Ösen wieder kontaktieren?
>
> Oder hast du evtl. Lust, das Projekt als Mentor zu begleiten?
>
> J.
>
>
> 2010/3/9 Stefan Rovetto <designo at gmx.net>
>
>>  Hoi Johannes
>> Mesh geht sehr wohl! Flexibles Gedankengut vorausgesetzt. Wir haben im
>> letzten Jahr das ganze Quartiernetz upgedated. Mesh lassen wir auf der
>> "unteren Ebene" laufen und mit einem zweiten AP hinter dem Mesh-Geraet
>> haengen wir ein Infrastruktur AP dran. Dadurch bekommst du den Vorteil vom
>> Meshing und hast die 100%-ige Kompatibilitaet und die 100%-ige
>> Nicht-Aergere-Mich-Garantie zu allen Geraeten, egal ob XO, iPhone,
>> Fotoapparate etc. Der Update-Thread ->
>> http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=159191169131&topic=11500
>>
>> Nachteile a) es braucht ein paar Watt mehr 8-(  und b) Update- und
>> erhoehter Geraetesupport. Zum Glueck habe ich von beiden Nachteilen bis
>> heute noch nichts gespuehrt.
>>
>> Freundliche Gruesse aus Bern
>> Stefan
>> --
>> OLPC / Ondalivre -> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=130220360306
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *Von:* olpc-de-bounces at lists.laptop.org [mailto:
>> olpc-de-bounces at lists.laptop.org] *Im Auftrag von *Johannes Ponader
>> *Gesendet:* Montag, 8. März 2010 21:46
>> *An:* Christoph Derndorfer
>> *Cc:* olpcaustria at lo-res.org; olpc-de at lists.laptop.org
>> *Betreff:* Re: [OLPC-DE] [Olpcaustria] Projektvorstellung:
>> CompetitiveLearning Within A Mesh Network
>>
>> Hallo Christoph,
>>
>> danke für deine interessanten Hinweise!
>>
>> Das mit dem mesh network ist natürlich wichtig, damit wir uns nicht gleich
>> am Anfang  doppelte Arbeit machen müssen.
>>
>> Das Handbuch ist auch ein toller Tip. Die devel-Liste jedenfalls habe ich
>> im Auge ;-)
>>
>> Soviel für heute,
>>
>> Johannes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/3/8 Christoph Derndorfer <e0425826 at student.tuwien.ac.at>
>>
>>> Hallo Johannes,
>>>
>>> klingt nach einem sehr interessanten Projekt! :-)
>>>
>>> Ein Wort vielleicht zum Mesh-Netzwerk: Leider hat sich herausgestellt,
>>> dass es hier einen ganzen Haufen Schwierigkeiten gibt weshalb in vielen
>>> Schulen jetzt doch eher auf klassische Infrastruktur mit Access Points
>>> gesetzt wird. Das Mesh-Netzwerk wird, soweit ich das beurteilen kann,
>>> aktuell nur eher im begrenzten Rahmen eingesetzt.
>>>
>>> Bezüglich der Collaboration-Infrastruktur wird sich auf Softwareebene in
>>> den nächsten Monaten in Sugar wohl auch einiges ändern, siehe dazu diesen
>>> Blog-Eintrag von Tomeu Vizoso:
>>> http://blog.tomeuvizoso.net/2010/03/my-focus-during-090-collaboration.htmlbzw. würde ich empfehlen diesbezüglich auch die sugar-devel Mailingliste 
>>> (
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel) im Auge zu behalten.
>>>
>>> Last but not least, James Simmons arbeitet seit einiger Zeit an einem sehr
>>> ausführlichen Handbuch zur Programmierung von Activities. Der letzte Stand
>>> der Dinge ist unter
>>> http://objavi.flossmanuals.net/books/ActivitiesGuideSugar-en-2010.03.05-04.59.13.pdfzu finden und ich denke der Inhalt könnte für euer Team recht 
>>> interessant
>>> und hilfreich sein.
>>>
>>> Liebe Grüsse aus Wien,
>>>
>>> Christoph
>>>
>>> Zitat von Johannes Ponader <johannesponader at googlemail.com>:
>>>
>>>  Hallo,
>>>>
>>>> anbei sende ich euch einen Projektantrag für ein
>>>> Activity-Entwicklungsprojekt und bitte euch um euer Feedback.
>>>>
>>>> Wir werden den Antrag in den nächsten Tagen beim contributors program
>>>> einreichen und sind für Tips, Hinweise etc. dankbar.
>>>>
>>>> Vielleicht kennt ihr Menschen, die an etwas ähnlichem arbeiten,
>>>> vielleicht
>>>> habe ich etwas übersehen (z. B. dass  doch schon eine Laptop Lending
>>>> Library
>>>> in Deutschland gibt o.ä.?)
>>>>
>>>> Vielleicht hat auch jemand von euch Lust, das Projekt als Mentor und/oder
>>>> Tester zu begleiten.
>>>>
>>>> Ich freue mich auf euer Feedback, gern auch auf
>>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk:Competitive_Learning
>>>>
>>>> Der Antragstext ist dort auch zu finden unter
>>>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Competitive_Learning
>>>>
>>>> Johannes Ponader.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Project Title & Shipment Detail
>>>>
>>>> *Name of Project:*
>>>>
>>>> Competitive Learning within a Mesh Network
>>>> [edit<
>>>> https://mail.google.com/index.php?title=Competitive_Learning&action=edit&section=2
>>>> >
>>>> ] Team Participants
>>>>
>>>> *Name(s) & Contact Info: (include all email addresses & phone numbers)*
>>>>
>>>> Johannes Ponader, programmer (development), pedagogue for
>>>> game/drama/theatre
>>>> in education
>>>>
>>>> Mathias Krebs, programmer (testing), pedagogue
>>>>
>>>> Patrick Hupka, programmer (interface design, usability), web programmer
>>>>
>>>> *Employer and/or School:*
>>>>
>>>> Project KUSS (?Kinder, Unterricht und Systeme für Schulerfolg? -
>>>> Children,
>>>> Teaching and Systems for Success at School), provided by the City of
>>>> Munich
>>>>
>>>> *in partnership w/:*
>>>>
>>>> ETC - Euro Trainings Centre
>>>> 80331 München
>>>>
>>>> *and*
>>>>
>>>> Hauptschule an der Bernaysstraße
>>>> 80937 München
>>>>
>>>> *Past Experience/Qualifications:*
>>>>
>>>> In our team, the following qualifications come together:
>>>>
>>>> Application development (C, C++, Python, Java, Perl), server/web
>>>> development
>>>> (PHP, Javascript, Ajax, Flash/Actionscript), database development (MySQL,
>>>> Access), web design, interface design, interaction design & animation,
>>>> learning research, learning techniques, drama/theatre and games in
>>>> education
>>>>
>>>> [edit<
>>>> https://mail.google.com/index.php?title=Competitive_Learning&action=edit&section=3
>>>> >
>>>> ] Objectives
>>>>
>>>> *Project Objectives: (WEB-PUBLISHED <http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects>)*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The project's aim is to develop an activity framework for competitive
>>>> learning/training activities over the mesh network.
>>>>
>>>> Two or more teams within a learning environment compete against each
>>>> other.
>>>> They can see the learning/training effort of their own and of the other
>>>> teams, compare their own achievements, gain awards for achieving teacher
>>>> defined learning/training goals. They see in real time which team members
>>>> of
>>>> their own or other teams are actively learning at the moment and which
>>>> challenges their team and the other teams are actually facing.
>>>>
>>>> By getting immediate feedback over the learning/training effort - as well
>>>> over their own, as over their team's and as over the effort of the
>>>> competing
>>>> team(s), pupils can be motivated to learn in a special way.
>>>>
>>>> Into the activity framework for competitive learning/training a model
>>>> learning/training activity will be integrated. This highly customizable
>>>> question/answer activity can be used to train foreign or first language
>>>> vocabulary, maths, or any other knowledge that can be training in a
>>>> sophisticated question/answer style.
>>>>
>>>> The learning/training activity uses experience from learning research to
>>>> gain a maximum of learning effect within the given time dedicated to
>>>> learning by the pupils. As well as the pupils, the teacher(s) can see the
>>>> training achievements of the class and can retrieve detailed reports
>>>> about
>>>> the successes and the learning gaps of the class - via the mesh network
>>>> he/she can even see from home in the evening which lessons are understood
>>>> by
>>>> the pupils and which have to be deepened the next day.
>>>> [edit<
>>>> https://mail.google.com/index.php?title=Competitive_Learning&action=edit&section=4
>>>> >
>>>> ] Plan of Action
>>>>
>>>>  1. Basic development of activity framework for competive
>>>>
>>>>  learning/training over a mesh network.
>>>>  2. Internal tests and development within the team.
>>>>  3. Integration of a simple model activity into the framework.
>>>>  4. Beta release to the public and pledge for public testing/bug reports.
>>>>  5. Development and integration of a demo interface design attractive to
>>>>  the first target group.
>>>>
>>>>  6. Intensive testing within a class of 15 pupils.
>>>>  7. Integration of a sophisticated model training/learning activity.
>>>>  8. RC and Pledge for public suggestions for additional interface
>>>> designs.
>>>>
>>>>  9. Further development
>>>>
>>>> [edit<
>>>> https://mail.google.com/index.php?title=Competitive_Learning&action=edit&section=5
>>>> >
>>>>  ] Needs
>>>>
>>>> *Why is this project needed?*
>>>>
>>>> Competitive training is a highly motivating technique for pupils to train
>>>> their knowledge. In combination with the XO mesh network this technique
>>>> can
>>>> be smartly established together with real time performance monitoring.
>>>>
>>>> *Locally?*
>>>>
>>>> In our class 15 pupils are altogether. They all have some bigger gaps in
>>>> their basic knowledge in several subjects. To close these gaps, standard
>>>> training techninques (vocabulary cards etc.) are limited in their effect,
>>>> because the pupils lack motivation and/or basic selforganization skills
>>>> to
>>>> use these techniques. In addition to that, the parents do not always have
>>>> the ressources to help the pupils in their daly home training quota.
>>>>
>>>> On the other side, our pupils are very open to standard score-point-like
>>>> and/or competing team motivation techniques. The competitive training
>>>> activity shall motivate the pupils to close the gaps and to achieve
>>>> better
>>>> success in school, without the need of an intensive parents' help or the
>>>> help of private tutors.
>>>>
>>>> *In the greater OLPC/Sugar community?*
>>>>
>>>> Other pupils around the world have the same need for a highly motivating
>>>> learning environment, which can be easily used without the help of
>>>> parents
>>>> or tutors. In some countries there even aren't the ressources to have
>>>> vocabulary cards or the personal coaches for every pupil, but there could
>>>> be
>>>> one laptop per child to do this job.
>>>>
>>>> *Outside the community?*
>>>>
>>>> The motivation technique used in this project can be a model even for
>>>> learning environments outside the OLPC community.
>>>>
>>>> *Why can't this project be done in
>>>> emulation<http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Emulating_the_XO>using non-XO
>>>>
>>>> machines?
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> The project makes use of the XO-specific mesh network and shall be
>>>> integrated into the XO philosophy, with one laptop per child in the
>>>> class.
>>>> To see how the motivation increases when the pupils use the activity on
>>>> their own XO device, original material should be used.
>>>>
>>>> *Why are you requesting the number of machines you are asking for?*
>>>>
>>>> We need four laptops to establish two competing client teams consisting
>>>> of
>>>> two devices each. One laptop should host the teacher's console.
>>>>
>>>> *Will you consider (1) salvaged/rebuilt XO Laptops:* Yes.
>>>>
>>>> *Will you consider (2) damaged XO Laptops?:* No.
>>>>
>>>> *Which generation of XO Laptops do you need (XO-1.0 or XO 1.5)?* Please
>>>> provide at least one or two 1.5 devices to be able to test the activity
>>>> on
>>>> the latest hardware.
>>>> [edit<
>>>> https://mail.google.com/index.php?title=Competitive_Learning&action=edit&section=6
>>>> >
>>>> ] Sharing Deliverables
>>>>
>>>> *Project URL?where you'll report specific ongoing progress:*
>>>>
>>>>  - Alpha state: Learning Within A Mesh Network
>>>>
>>>> http://www.johannesponader.de/Competitive_Learning_Within_A_Mesh_Network
>>>> <http://www.johannesponader.de/Competitive>
>>>>  - Beta and RC-State: OLPC Git Repository (http://dev.laptop.org/git)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *How will you convey tentative ideas & results back to the OLPC/Sugar
>>>> community, prior to completion*
>>>>
>>>>  - Community mailing list
>>>>  - OLPC wiki
>>>>  - wiki on Project URL
>>>>
>>>> *How will the final fruits of your labor be distributed to children or
>>>> community members worldwide?*
>>>>
>>>>  - Open Source
>>>>  - RPM-Package
>>>>
>>>> *Will your work have any possible application or use outside our
>>>> community?*
>>>>
>>>> Yes. An internet server could to some extent take over the functionality
>>>> of
>>>> the mesh network, if the framework shall be ported onto different
>>>> platforms.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *How will these people be reached?*
>>>>
>>>>  - Open source
>>>>  - Packages
>>>>
>>>> *Have you investigated working with nearby XO Lending
>>>> Libraries<http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Laptop_Lending_Libraries>or
>>>> Project
>>>> Groups <http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Groups>?*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, there are no Lending Libraries in Germany. We are in
>>>> contact
>>>> with the German and Austrian Grassroots Group.
>>>> [edit<
>>>> https://mail.google.com/index.php?title=Competitive_Learning&action=edit&section=7
>>>> >
>>>> ] Quality/Mentoring
>>>>
>>>> *Would your Project benefit from Support, Documentation and/or Testing
>>>> people? *Yes (see above - 4. Plan of Action).
>>>>
>>>> *Teachers' input into Usability? *Yes.
>>>>
>>>> *How will you promote your work?*
>>>>
>>>> We will be embedding the project into a class of 15 pupils, which is part
>>>> of
>>>> the so-called "KUSS"-Project. As the KUSS-Project is a model school
>>>> project
>>>> provided by the City of Munich, reports about the project reach the
>>>> Munich
>>>> City Council in regular periods. When we are successful, we can think
>>>> about
>>>> establishing a XO Lending Library in Munich or to introduce a major OLPC
>>>> model project in one or more municipal school(s) in Munich.
>>>>
>>>> *Can we help you with an experienced mentor from the OLPC/Sugar
>>>> community?
>>>> (WEB-PUBLISHED <http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects>)*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that would be cool. We appreciate mentoring from an experienced
>>>> pedagoge who is actually working in a school somewhere around the globe,
>>>> so
>>>> that he/she knows the challenges of daily work at schools and can think
>>>> himself into the benefits of the targetted project from a practical view.
>>>> [edit<
>>>> https://mail.google.com/index.php?title=Competitive_Learning&action=edit&section=8
>>>> >
>>>> ] Timeline (Start to Finish)
>>>>
>>>> *Please include a Proposed timeline for your Project life-cycle: (this
>>>> can
>>>> be in the form of Month 1, Month 2, etc rather than specific dates)*
>>>>
>>>>  - Month 1: Start of development
>>>>  - Month 2: Framework alpha, tested locally
>>>>  - Month 3: Framework beta, can be tested for larger networks by the
>>>>  community
>>>>  - Month 4: Implementation of vocabulary trainer alpha
>>>>  - Month 5: Vocabulary activity beta - local testing by pupils and
>>>>  teacher(s)
>>>>  - Month 6: RC - Bugreports from the community
>>>>  - Month 7: V 1.0 - encouraging the community to integrate other
>>>>  activities into the framework
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Johannes Ponader
>>>> 0162/94 64 94 0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christoph Derndorfer
>>> co-editor, olpcnews
>>> url: www.olpcnews.com
>>> e-mail: christoph at olpcnews.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Johannes Ponader
>> 0162/94 64 94 0
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Johannes Ponader
> 0162/94 64 94 0
>



--
Christoph Derndorfer
co-editor, olpcnews
url: www.olpcnews.com
e-mail: christoph at olpcnews.com




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