[OLPC Bolivia] [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

Lun Feb 7 12:09:02 EST 2011

Hi Ron,

Well, "the field" itself really doesn't have a good overview of the strongest 
ideas it has had since 1950. So I certainly don't get upset when anyone randomly 
isn't aware of something that happened 40 years ago.

But researchers and engineers need to be a lot more careful about checking out 
prior art. The lack of this has led to the odd phenomena since the 1980s of 
"reinventing the flat tire". Some of these that were really done badly (like the 
web browser, various bad scripting languages and UIs) have held things back for 
decades (and still are).

I predict that you will be amazed by Dave Reed's thesis. We implemented it a few 
years ago and it is now both an open source foundation (Croquet) and a startup 
(Teleplace).

Cheers,

Alan

________________________________
From: Ron Teitelbaum <horont en earthlink.net>
To: Alan Kay <alan.nemo en yahoo.com>; Chunka Mui <chunka en cornerloft.com>
Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes 
<olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org>; squeakland.org mailing list 
<squeakland en squeakland.org>; america-latina en squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa 
<carnen en mac.com>; Maho 2010 <maho en realness.org>; olpc bolivia 
<olpc-bolivia en lists.laptop.org>; IAEP SugarLabs <iaep en lists.sugarlabs.org>; OLPC 
Puno <olpcpuno en gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, February 7, 2011 8:32:40 AM
Subject: RE: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

Thank you for humoring me.  I stand corrected.  I havenâ€™t read Davidâ€™s thesis.  
Just downloaded it.  Thanks for the suggestion.

Ron

From:Alan Kay [mailto:alan.nemo en yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 11:21 AM
To: Ron Teitelbaum; Chunka Mui
Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes; squeakland.org 
mailing list; america-latina en squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa; Maho 2010; olpc 
bolivia; IAEP SugarLabs; OLPC Puno
Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

Hi Ron,

I've already played this game ad nauseum with many groups on the web. So I urge 
everyone to rise above the temptation to name your favorite idea that seems 
"new".

But do you really think there were no peer to peer and cloud computing systems 
already deployed before 1980? (Hint: I used both quite a lot back then, and for 
a short time actually was in charge of an ARPA task group to define an AI "cloud 
resource" for the already running ARPAnet -- the one that got built was a 
multiple processor system (C.mmp) designed by Gordon Bell)

For much larger issues and inventions than DHT, let me refer you to the 1978 PhD 
thesis of David Reed (popularly known as "the '/' in TCP/IP") at MIT.1978. If 
you haven't heard of David or read this thesis, then this helps make my main 
point.

Since it would be really improbable for me to be aware of all developments after 
1980 (and even some before), I don't claim there have been none. 

I simply asked for 3 (or even one) since 1980 comparable to personal computing, 
GUIs, the Internet, Engelbart's notion of "online system", etc. Previous essays 
into this yielded many suggestions, but I was able to identify prior art for all 
such.

For example, Tim Berners-Lee was suitably embarrassed when he found out about 
Engelbart - first for the web not doing as well in the design, goals and 
execution, and secondly, because as a physicist he would have been drummed out 
of Physics if he had not tried to "stand on the shoulders of giants" (as Newton 
said), and he had assumed falsely (and I think partly because our field is so 
careless about its historical great steps up) that computing had no Netwons, and 
the Internet had somehow just appeared without thought out purposes, and he 
failed to look for them.

Best wishes,

Alan

________________________________

From:Ron Teitelbaum <horont en earthlink.net>
To: Alan Kay <alan.nemo en yahoo.com>; Chunka Mui <chunka en cornerloft.com>
Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes 
<olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org>; squeakland.org mailing list 
<squeakland en squeakland.org>; america-latina en squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa 
<carnen en mac.com>; Maho 2010 <maho en realness.org>; olpc bolivia 
<olpc-bolivia en lists.laptop.org>; IAEP SugarLabs <iaep en lists.sugarlabs.org>; OLPC 
Puno <olpcpuno en gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 7:28:18 AM
Subject: RE: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric
Hi Alan,

One thing that comes to mind right away is DHT research.  I could be wrong but 
it seems to me that the 90â€™ saw the birth of DHT, P2P and Cloud Computing.

Ron Teitelbaum

From:squeakland-bounces en squeakland.org 
[mailto:squeakland-bounces en squeakland.org] On Behalf Of Alan Kay
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 2:12 PM
To: Chunka Mui
Cc: voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios docentes; squeakland.org 
mailing list; america-latina en squeakland.org; Carlos Rabassa; Maho 2010; olpc 
bolivia; IAEP SugarLabs; OLPC Puno
Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

Hi Chunka,

I've been challenged on this point more than once, and have challenged back to 
come up with one invention that was done after 1980 that matches up to the top 
10 done before 1980. 

This has not happened. I've been able to show the prior art for all suggestions.

Essentially everything in the last 30 years has been commercializations and 
other forms of "innovation" based on what was funded by ARPA, ONR, and by 
extension, Xerox in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

The important point here is that there are many new inventions needed, and they 
can be identified, but no one has been willing to fund them. It's not that the 
early birds got the worms, but that most of the needed worms out there are being 
missed.

Cheers,

Alan

________________________________

From:Chunka Mui <chunka en cornerloft.com>
To: Alan Kay <alan.nemo en yahoo.com>
Cc: Carlos Rabassa <carnen en mac.com>; "america-latina en squeakland.org" 
<america-latina en squeakland.org>; squeakland.org mailing list 
<squeakland en squeakland.org>; Maho 2010 <maho en realness.org>; IAEP SugarLabs 
<iaep en lists.sugarlabs.org>; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios 
docentes <olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org>; olpc bolivia 
<olpc-bolivia en lists.laptop.org>; OLPC Puno <olpcpuno en gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:53:44 AM
Subject: Re: [squeakland] [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

On Jan 30, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Alan Kay <alan.nemo en yahoo.com> wrote:
GE is being congratulated for recognizing that the iPhone and iPad are pretty 
good ideas and technological realizations. But isn't this like the 
congratulations Bill Gates got for finally recognizing the Internet (about 25 
years after it had started working)?
>
>Seems as though Apple had a lot more on the ball than Bill Gates or GE here 
>(they used to do computing in the 60s, but couldn't see what it was).
>
>And most of the ideas at Apple (and for personal computing and the Internet) 
>came from research funding that no company or government has been willing to do 
>since 1982.

Alan -- Could you say more about this point?  Surely there's been tons of CS and 
IT funding since '82, both govt funding to universities and massive research 
budgets at msft, hp, 

Regards,
Chunka

Cheers,

Alan

________________________________

From:Carlos Rabassa <carnen en mac.com>
To: america-latina en squeakland.org; squeakland.org mailing list 
<squeakland en squeakland.org>; Maho 2010 <maho en realness.org>; IAEP SugarLabs 
<iaep en lists.sugarlabs.org>; voluntarios y administradores OLPC para usuarios 
docentes <olpc-sur en lists.laptop.org>; olpc bolivia 
<olpc-bolivia en lists.laptop.org>; OLPC Puno <olpcpuno en gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 4:11:49 AM
Subject: [IAEP] Plan Ceibal y/and General Electric

We try to learn from those who have succeed for a long time:

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1XWm2q8nQ-l5KUJ_PWkQruLDx-nZ7nsKDfg4idDlsU50

Carlos Rabassa
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IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
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