[OLPC India] Digitizing Primary school textbooks for OLPC, India
Joshua Gay
joshuagay at gmail.com
Mon Jul 12 11:05:45 EDT 2010
I was wondering if you were able to eventually make contact with the NCERT
people to find out if the owrks could be reused for free/digital use.
-Josh
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Trilok Khairnar <trilokgk at gmail.com>wrote:
> Tried to contact BalBharati using their 'contact us' form, with the
> following comment: 'Seeking information on availability of textbooks for
> free online as a free software enthusiast and a volunteer for the "One Laptp
> Per Child" project.'
>
> And sure enough, form submission failed :-( and dumped this -
> Server object error 'ASP 0177 : 800401f3'
> Server.CreateObject Failed
> /send.asp, line 14
> 800401f3
>
> Regards,
> Trilok
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Trilok Khairnar <trilokgk at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> And now the textbook section on NCERT website has the following notice:
>> "The Online textbooks section is temporarily out of service. Please bear
>> with us.". Duh.
>>
>> Your initiative is great. Just my two cents here.
>>
>> After scanning the Marathi textbooks, what is the manner in which eAccess
>> will make PDF books:
>> A] Build the entire content as one PDF from a set of scanned images as
>> pages?
>> Or
>> B] Extract text using OCR (sounds difficult) or type it manually. After
>> rounds of proofreading, get the content typeset and build an ebook using
>> LaTeX/ OpenOffice/ RestructuredText or equivalent.
>>
>> I guess it's A (scan books and make PDFs/ HTML from images).
>> While this will give the kids access to e-textbooks for reading, they will
>> not be able to pick images/ text to take notes, make annotations etc.
>>
>> Is it not worthwhile to talk to NCERT or their regional counterparts such
>> as BalBharati <http://www.balbharati.in/index1.htm> and convince them to
>> make books available for free (as in free speech and milk) online with
>> appropriate open license attached? They would have anyway used computer
>> based typesetting software to typeset the books, although I am sure there's
>> probably no standard followed across states for that process.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Trilok
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 5:19 PM, Harshal Jawale <hjawale at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Trilok!
>>>
>>> I have seen the NCERT site but did not find Marathi, Gujarati, Tamil,
>>> Telugu etc languages on it.
>>>
>>> Also I do not think the navigation is intuitive - for e.g. When I saw
>>> only two pages in the first PDF, I thought it was a sample PDF.
>>>
>>> In my opinion, the structure was probably designed for dialup access.
>>>
>>> Btw, the first set of Marathi primary textbooks are being shipped for
>>> scanning.
>>>
>>> We are looking for volunteers to buy & ship textbooks in other languages.
>>> Costs will be reimbursed (thanks to few sponsors) after the textbooks reach
>>> Chennai.
>>>
>>> Warm Regds,
>>>
>>> Harshal
>>>
>>> -- Sent from a handheld device --
>>>
>>> On Apr 29, 2010, at 4:33 AM, Trilok Khairnar <trilokgk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> The textbooks are available on NCERT website, although as a collection of
>>> chapters that need to be downloaded separately and not as entire PDFs.
>>> These PDFs can be downloaded and then placed on school servers, XOs.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Trilok
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 11:39 PM, Harshal Jawale <hjawale at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> *Update on content digitization:*
>>>>
>>>> Based on the tests done with various formats - we have come to a
>>>> conclusion that 72dpi scanned PDF format is the optimum format (quality &
>>>> file size) for digitizing primary school textbooks (Stds I to IV). The
>>>> subjects are - Balbharati (reading), Math, Sciences, History/Geography.
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to get a few volunteers to mail Marathi primary school
>>>> textbooks to Soundar.
>>>>
>>>> We are requesting primary textbooks for other Indian languages including
>>>> Hindi, Gujarathi, Kanada, Telugu, Bengali, Oriya, Urdu, Tamil (the
>>>> syllabus is changing so this is on hold) etc.
>>>> The books need not be brand new but should not be torn and should not
>>>> have any scribblings on the pages.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone interesting in helping gathering primary school textbooks from
>>>> your neighbourhood kids etc and mailing it to Soundar?
>>>>
>>>> His mailing address is :
>>>> M.Soundara Pandian
>>>> eAccess
>>>> New No.42, Old No.2,
>>>> Vellalar Street, Near Best Hospital,
>>>> Kodambakkam,Chennai - 600 024
>>>>
>>>> We plan to package them as Collections so that children will have access
>>>> to the textbooks on the XO itself.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Harshal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Re: Digitizing Primary school textbooks for OLPC, India
>>>>> (Harshal Jawale)
>>>>> 2. (no subject) (Soundar)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 20:22:20 -0700
>>>>> From: Harshal Jawale <hjawale at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OLPC India] Digitizing Primary school textbooks for
>>>>> OLPC, India
>>>>> To: India at lists.laptop.org
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>> <z2s4bac79531004062022x9018d581n5eb24d37137fa17b at mail.gmail.com
>>>>> >
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed Sameer. Now that Soundar has shown interest in doing textbook
>>>>> scans -
>>>>> I think we should open this for inputs from others.
>>>>>
>>>>> To keep this discussion streamlined and focused, I would like to
>>>>> suggest
>>>>> following discussion points:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. To facilitate digitization of primary school textbooks, Soundar
>>>>> has
>>>>> offered his services to scan and digitized textbooks so that they can
>>>>> be
>>>>> used on OLPC. There are two formats which look attractive,
>>>>>
>>>>> a) HTML - as Sameer rightly points out, its easy to keep these on
>>>>> school
>>>>> servers. For this we would just need image scans of the pages. The
>>>>> images
>>>>> would need to be optimized to reduce the file sizes. Also, these
>>>>> would need
>>>>> to be packaged so that the HTML navigation can be incorporated using
>>>>> Javascript or simple hyperlinks.
>>>>>
>>>>> b) PDF - this is the easy option and can also be kept on the school
>>>>> server.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts? This is pilot test so lets keep it simple without getting
>>>>> into
>>>>> painful technical discussions.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Can someone check on copyright & legal aspects of scanning primary
>>>>> school textbooks? Can the scans be used for educational purpose? If
>>>>> not,
>>>>> what approvals are needed and from whom?
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Soundar, since you are based in Chennai, can you take couple of
>>>>> Std 1
>>>>> textbooks from your local schools? Try to find a kid you know and
>>>>> borrow the
>>>>> textbook for scanning. Please scan in JPG as well as PDF format. We
>>>>> do not
>>>>> need them to be 'editable'
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. Once we do a pilot scan, then we can check if volunteers across
>>>>> India
>>>>> can help to collect primary school textbooks in local languages to be
>>>>> sent
>>>>> to Soundar who can then scan them for XO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Harshal
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Harshal Jawale <hjawale at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > > Hello Soundar,
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Thank you for your email and interest in helping out OLPC.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Here's what I think:
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > The biggest shortcoming of OLPC in India (& elsewhere) is the lack
>>>>> of
>>>>> > > content. Ofcourse, it has built-in activities and tools etc but
>>>>> when it
>>>>> > > comes to learning for exams, how can it help the children? I do not
>>>>> have
>>>>> > a
>>>>> > > clear understanding of it.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > This is where you can provide immense value and help.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > The idea is very simple -
>>>>> > > Digitize textbooks of Std 1 to 4 (primary school) for OLPC. And, to
>>>>> start
>>>>> > > with, you can focus on Science, Maths and one language.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Most of the syllabus and curriculum is determined by the State
>>>>> Govts. -
>>>>> > in
>>>>> > > many cases, the Govt publishes the textbooks and heavily subsidizes
>>>>> it
>>>>> > for
>>>>> > > primary students.
>>>>> > > Now, if instead of carrying paper textbooks, if these kids had it
>>>>> all on
>>>>> > > their XO or could access it using the XO- it changes the whole
>>>>> equation
>>>>> > on
>>>>> > > how the XO gets used! The students don't need to carry any books at
>>>>> all.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Do you think you have the capacity to softcopy (digitize) textbooks
>>>>> from
>>>>> > Std
>>>>> > > 1 to 4 for 10 major Indian Languages? That would be around (4
>>>>> classes x 3
>>>>> > > subjects x 10 languages = 120 books)
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > If you can do this, I am hoping that we can request volunteers
>>>>> around
>>>>> > India
>>>>> > > to ship you textbooks. You can then create the soft-copies and I
>>>>> can help
>>>>> > > package the collection for XO.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Sameer, what do you think?
>>>>> > > I am aware that softcopies take disk space which the XO may not
>>>>> have.
>>>>> > But,
>>>>> > > school server can host this or an additional SD card can also help
>>>>> solve
>>>>> > the
>>>>> > > problem. In any case, this shouldn't be a big deal. I am also
>>>>> betting
>>>>> > that
>>>>> > > since the Govt owns the rights to the educational material, they
>>>>> won't
>>>>> > have
>>>>> > > problem if this is made freely available to all kids in India.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Harshal
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Soundar <soundar at eaccessbpo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Harshal,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the reply. Really I am very happy to do this. I would like
>>>>> to
>>>>> know whether the all text books in softcopy ( only for image (PDF ) or
>>>>> editable Soft copy.) please advice the same. How I will get the entire
>>>>> text
>>>>> book.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Soundar M
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > There are two basic pathways to content. Either it is prepackaged by
>>>>> > the country/state or the school/teachers create it. So, for instance
>>>>> > you want electronic versions of textbooks, then the books have to be
>>>>> > scanned or digitized (OCR). NCERT has already done this in an
>>>>> > experimental mode.
>>>>> http://www.ncert.nic.in/textbooks/testing/Index.htm
>>>>> > Anything that's HTML/web based for exams etc. are usable with a
>>>>> school
>>>>> > server. A lot of the material is not clear legally for reuse in such
>>>>> > environments.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The mode of self-exploration and development of content locally is
>>>>> > based on activities such as Write (word processing), Memorize (memory
>>>>> > matching), etc. TamTamEdit is a music editing system that allows for
>>>>> > building card-based music scores, which can then be played in
>>>>> > TamTamJam.
>>>>> >
>>>>> http://tamtam4olpc.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/new-tamtam-90-flat.png
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Etoys is its own authoring system. Sandeep Surve, the teacher in
>>>>> > Khairat did some of his own development early on. I saw this when I
>>>>> > was there in 2008. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgKy0SuZJHk
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Nepal is using a HTML and Javascript framework that they have
>>>>> > developed (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Karma).
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The choices are several. A lot depends on who is authoring and how it
>>>>> > is delivered.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Note: A good bit of this discussion should happen on the lists so
>>>>> that
>>>>> > others can chime in.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > cheers,
>>>>> > Sameer
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
>>>>> > Associate Professor, Information Systems
>>>>> > Director, Campus Business Solutions
>>>>> > San Francisco State University
>>>>> > http://verma.sfsu.edu/
>>>>> > http://cbs.sfsu.edu/
>>>>> > http://is.sfsu.edu/
>>>>> >
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL:
>>>>> http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/india/attachments/20100406/14fa1bfd/attachment-0001.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:43:03 +0530
>>>>> From: "Soundar" <soundar at eaccessbpo.com>
>>>>> Subject: [OLPC India] (no subject)
>>>>> To: <hjawale at gmail.com>, <India at lists.laptop.org>
>>>>> Message-ID: <20100407041326.F1E162384F at mail.laptop.org>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Harshal,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. If I am doing the pilot for the Std 1 Text books for OLPC. I
>>>>> would
>>>>> like to know the DPI & Mode of the Pages to be scan ( 300 dpi / 1 bit
>>>>> Black
>>>>> & Whit or 300 dpi gray, if we are do the scanning in Gary the file size
>>>>> to
>>>>> large .) please advice the same.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Soundar M
>>>>>
>>>>> eAccess
>>>>>
>>>>> New No.42, Old No.2,
>>>>>
>>>>> Vellalar Street,
>>>>>
>>>>> Near Best Hospital,
>>>>>
>>>>> Kodambakkam,
>>>>>
>>>>> Chennai - 600 024
>>>>>
>>>>> Mail : soundar at eaccessbpo.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Phone : + 91 - 44 - 43565774
>>>>>
>>>>> Mobile : + 91 - 9543009993
>>>>>
>>>>> _____
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Harshal Jawale [mailto:hjawale at gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 8:52 AM
>>>>> To: India at lists.laptop.org
>>>>> Cc: Soundar; Sameer Verma
>>>>> Subject: Re: Digitizing Primary school textbooks for OLPC, India
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed Sameer. Now that Soundar has shown interest in doing textbook
>>>>> scans -
>>>>> I think we should open this for inputs from others.
>>>>>
>>>>> To keep this discussion streamlined and focused, I would like to
>>>>> suggest
>>>>> following discussion points:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. To facilitate digitization of primary school textbooks, Soundar
>>>>> has
>>>>> offered his services to scan and digitized textbooks so that they can
>>>>> be
>>>>> used on OLPC. There are two formats which look attractive,
>>>>>
>>>>> a) HTML - as Sameer rightly points out, its easy to keep these on
>>>>> school
>>>>> servers. For this we would just need image scans of the pages. The
>>>>> images
>>>>> would need to be optimized to reduce the file sizes. Also, these would
>>>>> need
>>>>> to be packaged so that the HTML navigation can be incorporated using
>>>>> Javascript or simple hyperlinks.
>>>>>
>>>>> b) PDF - this is the easy option and can also be kept on the school
>>>>> server.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts? This is pilot test so lets keep it simple without getting
>>>>> into
>>>>> painful technical discussions.
>>>>> 2. Can someone check on copyright & legal aspects of scanning
>>>>> primary
>>>>> school textbooks? Can the scans be used for educational purpose? If
>>>>> not,
>>>>> what approvals are needed and from whom?
>>>>> 3. Soundar, since you are based in Chennai, can you take couple of
>>>>> Std
>>>>> 1 textbooks from your local schools? Try to find a kid you know and
>>>>> borrow
>>>>> the textbook for scanning. Please scan in JPG as well as PDF format. We
>>>>> do
>>>>> not need them to be 'editable'
>>>>> 4. Once we do a pilot scan, then we can check if volunteers across
>>>>> India can help to collect primary school textbooks in local languages
>>>>> to be
>>>>> sent to Soundar who can then scan them for XO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Harshal
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Harshal Jawale <hjawale at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > Hello Soundar,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thank you for your email and interest in helping out OLPC.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Here's what I think:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The biggest shortcoming of OLPC in India (& elsewhere) is the lack of
>>>>> > content. Ofcourse, it has built-in activities and tools etc but when
>>>>> it
>>>>> > comes to learning for exams, how can it help the children? I do not
>>>>> have a
>>>>> > clear understanding of it.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > This is where you can provide immense value and help.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The idea is very simple -
>>>>> > Digitize textbooks of Std 1 to 4 (primary school) for OLPC. And, to
>>>>> start
>>>>> > with, you can focus on Science, Maths and one language.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Most of the syllabus and curriculum is determined by the State Govts.
>>>>> - in
>>>>> > many cases, the Govt publishes the textbooks and heavily subsidizes
>>>>> it for
>>>>> > primary students.
>>>>> > Now, if instead of carrying paper textbooks, if these kids had it all
>>>>> on
>>>>> > their XO or could access it using the XO- it changes the whole
>>>>> equation on
>>>>> > how the XO gets used! The students don't need to carry any books at
>>>>> all.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Do you think you have the capacity to softcopy (digitize) textbooks
>>>>> from
>>>>> Std
>>>>> > 1 to 4 for 10 major Indian Languages? That would be around (4 classes
>>>>> x 3
>>>>> > subjects x 10 languages = 120 books)
>>>>> >
>>>>> > If you can do this, I am hoping that we can request volunteers around
>>>>> India
>>>>> > to ship you textbooks. You can then create the soft-copies and I can
>>>>> help
>>>>> > package the collection for XO.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Sameer, what do you think?
>>>>> > I am aware that softcopies take disk space which the XO may not have.
>>>>> But,
>>>>> > school server can host this or an additional SD card can also help
>>>>> solve
>>>>> the
>>>>> > problem. In any case, this shouldn't be a big deal. I am also betting
>>>>> that
>>>>> > since the Govt owns the rights to the educational material, they
>>>>> won't
>>>>> have
>>>>> > problem if this is made freely available to all kids in India.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Harshal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Soundar <soundar at eaccessbpo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Harshal,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the reply. Really I am very happy to do this. I would like
>>>>> to
>>>>> know whether the all text books in softcopy ( only for image (PDF ) or
>>>>> editable Soft copy.) please advice the same. How I will get the entire
>>>>> text
>>>>> book.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Soundar M
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are two basic pathways to content. Either it is prepackaged by
>>>>> the country/state or the school/teachers create it. So, for instance
>>>>> you want electronic versions of textbooks, then the books have to be
>>>>> scanned or digitized (OCR). NCERT has already done this in an
>>>>> experimental mode. http://www.ncert.nic.in/textbooks/testing/Index.htm
>>>>> Anything that's HTML/web based for exams etc. are usable with a school
>>>>> server. A lot of the material is not clear legally for reuse in such
>>>>> environments.
>>>>>
>>>>> The mode of self-exploration and development of content locally is
>>>>> based on activities such as Write (word processing), Memorize (memory
>>>>> matching), etc. TamTamEdit is a music editing system that allows for
>>>>> building card-based music scores, which can then be played in
>>>>> TamTamJam.
>>>>> http://tamtam4olpc.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/new-tamtam-90-flat.png
>>>>>
>>>>> Etoys is its own authoring system. Sandeep Surve, the teacher in
>>>>> Khairat did some of his own development early on. I saw this when I
>>>>> was there in 2008. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgKy0SuZJHk
>>>>>
>>>>> Nepal is using a HTML and Javascript framework that they have
>>>>> developed (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Karma).
>>>>>
>>>>> The choices are several. A lot depends on who is authoring and how it
>>>>> is delivered.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note: A good bit of this discussion should happen on the lists so that
>>>>> others can chime in.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers,
>>>>> Sameer
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
>>>>> Associate Professor, Information Systems
>>>>> Director, Campus Business Solutions
>>>>> San Francisco State University
>>>>> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
>>>>> http://cbs.sfsu.edu/
>>>>> http://is.sfsu.edu/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Soundar M
>>>>>
>>>>> eAccess
>>>>>
>>>>> New No.42, Old No.2,
>>>>>
>>>>> Vellalar Street,
>>>>>
>>>>> Near Best Hospital,
>>>>>
>>>>> Kodambakkam,
>>>>>
>>>>> Chennai - 600 024
>>>>>
>>>>> Mail : soundar at eaccessbpo.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Phone : + 91 - 44 - 43565774
>>>>>
>>>>> Mobile : + 91 - 9543009993
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>> URL:
>>>>> http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/india/attachments/20100407/7e67be66/attachment.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> India mailing list
>>>>> India at lists.laptop.org
>>>>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> End of India Digest, Vol 40, Issue 3
>>>>> ************************************
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> India mailing list
>>>> India at lists.laptop.org
>>>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/india
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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