I was wondering if you were able to eventually make contact with the NCERT people to find out if the owrks could be reused for free/digital use. <br><br>-Josh<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Trilok Khairnar <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:trilokgk@gmail.com">trilokgk@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>Tried to contact BalBharati using their 'contact us' form, with the following comment: 'Seeking information on availability of textbooks for free online as a free software enthusiast and a volunteer for the "One Laptp Per Child" project.'<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>And sure enough, form submission failed :-( and dumped this - </div><div> Server object error 'ASP 0177 : 800401f3' <br> Server.CreateObject Failed <br> /send.asp, line 14 <br> 800401f3<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Trilok</div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Trilok Khairnar <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:trilokgk@gmail.com" target="_blank">trilokgk@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>And now the textbook section on NCERT website has the following notice: "The Online textbooks section is temporarily out of service. Please bear with us.". Duh.<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>Your initiative is great. Just my two cents here.</div>
<div><br></div><div>After scanning the Marathi textbooks, what is the manner in which eAccess will make PDF books:</div><div>A] Build the entire content as one PDF from a set of scanned images as pages? </div><div>Or </div>
<div>B] Extract text using OCR (sounds difficult) or type it manually. After rounds of proofreading, get the content typeset and build an ebook using LaTeX/ OpenOffice/ RestructuredText or equivalent. </div><div><br></div>
<div>I guess it's A (scan books and make PDFs/ HTML from images). </div><div>While this will give the kids access to e-textbooks for reading, they will not be able to pick images/ text to take notes, make annotations etc.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Is it not worthwhile to talk to NCERT or their regional counterparts such as <a href="http://www.balbharati.in/index1.htm" target="_blank">BalBharati</a> and convince them to make books available for free (as in free speech and milk) online with appropriate open license attached? They would have anyway used computer based typesetting software to typeset the books, although I am sure there's probably no standard followed across states for that process.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Trilok</div><div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 5:19 PM, Harshal Jawale <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hjawale@gmail.com" target="_blank">hjawale@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>Thanks Trilok!</div><div><br></div><div>I have seen the NCERT site but did not find Marathi, Gujarati, Tamil, Telugu etc languages on it. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Also I do not think the navigation is intuitive - for e.g. When I saw only two pages in the first PDF, I thought it was a sample PDF. </div><div><br></div><div>In my opinion, the structure was probably designed for dialup access.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Btw, the first set of Marathi primary textbooks are being shipped for scanning. </div><div><br></div><div>We are looking for volunteers to buy & ship textbooks in other languages. Costs will be reimbursed (thanks to few sponsors) after the textbooks reach Chennai. </div>
<div><br><div>Warm Regds,</div><div><br></div><div>Harshal </div><div><br></div>-- Sent from a handheld device --</div><div><br>On Apr 29, 2010, at 4:33 AM, Trilok Khairnar <<a href="mailto:trilokgk@gmail.com" target="_blank">trilokgk@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><br>The textbooks are available on NCERT website, although as a collection of chapters that need to be downloaded separately and not as entire PDFs. <br>These PDFs can be downloaded and then placed on school servers, XOs.<br>
<br>Regards,<br>Trilok<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 11:39 PM, Harshal Jawale <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hjawale@gmail.com" target="_blank">hjawale@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<b>Update on content digitization:</b><br><br>Based on the tests done with various formats - we have come to a conclusion that 72dpi scanned PDF format is the optimum format (quality & file size) for digitizing primary school textbooks (Stds I to IV). The subjects are - Balbharati (reading), Math, Sciences, History/Geography.<br>
<br>I am trying to get a few volunteers to mail Marathi primary school textbooks to Soundar.<br><br>We are requesting primary textbooks for other Indian languages including Hindi, Gujarathi, Kanada, Telugu, <span style="background: none repeat scroll 0% 0% transparent;">Bengali</span>, Oriya, Urdu, Tamil (the syllabus is
changing so this is on hold) etc.<br>The books need not be brand new but should not be torn and should not have any scribblings on the pages.<br><br>Anyone interesting in helping gathering primary school textbooks from your neighbourhood kids etc and mailing it to Soundar?<br>
<br>His mailing address is :<br>M.Soundara Pandian<br>eAccess<br>New No.42, Old No.2,<br>Vellalar Street, Near Best Hospital,<br>Kodambakkam,Chennai - 600 024<br><br>We plan to package them as Collections so that children will have access to the textbooks on the XO itself.<br>
<br>Thanks,<br><br>Harshal<br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
1. Re: Digitizing Primary school textbooks for OLPC, India<br>
(Harshal Jawale)<br>
2. (no subject) (Soundar)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 20:22:20 -0700<br>
From: Harshal Jawale <<a href="mailto:hjawale@gmail.com" target="_blank">hjawale@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [OLPC India] Digitizing Primary school textbooks for<br>
OLPC, India<br>
To: <a href="mailto:India@lists.laptop.org" target="_blank">India@lists.laptop.org</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:z2s4bac79531004062022x9018d581n5eb24d37137fa17b@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">z2s4bac79531004062022x9018d581n5eb24d37137fa17b@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Agreed Sameer. Now that Soundar has shown interest in doing textbook scans -<br>
I think we should open this for inputs from others.<br>
<br>
To keep this discussion streamlined and focused, I would like to suggest<br>
following discussion points:<br>
<br>
1. To facilitate digitization of primary school textbooks, Soundar has<br>
offered his services to scan and digitized textbooks so that they can be<br>
used on OLPC. There are two formats which look attractive,<br>
<br>
a) HTML - as Sameer rightly points out, its easy to keep these on school<br>
servers. For this we would just need image scans of the pages. The images<br>
would need to be optimized to reduce the file sizes. Also, these would need<br>
to be packaged so that the HTML navigation can be incorporated using<br>
Javascript or simple hyperlinks.<br>
<br>
b) PDF - this is the easy option and can also be kept on the school<br>
server.<br>
<br>
Thoughts? This is pilot test so lets keep it simple without getting into<br>
painful technical discussions.<br>
<br>
2. Can someone check on copyright & legal aspects of scanning primary<br>
school textbooks? Can the scans be used for educational purpose? If not,<br>
what approvals are needed and from whom?<br>
<br>
3. Soundar, since you are based in Chennai, can you take couple of Std 1<br>
textbooks from your local schools? Try to find a kid you know and borrow the<br>
textbook for scanning. Please scan in JPG as well as PDF format. We do not<br>
need them to be 'editable'<br>
<br>
4. Once we do a pilot scan, then we can check if volunteers across India<br>
can help to collect primary school textbooks in local languages to be sent<br>
to Soundar who can then scan them for XO.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Harshal<br>
<br>
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Sameer Verma <<a href="mailto:sverma@sfsu.edu" target="_blank">sverma@sfsu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Harshal Jawale <<a href="mailto:hjawale@gmail.com" target="_blank">hjawale@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > Hello Soundar,<br>
> ><br>
> > Thank you for your email and interest in helping out OLPC.<br>
> ><br>
> > Here's what I think:<br>
> ><br>
> > The biggest shortcoming of OLPC in India (& elsewhere) is the lack of<br>
> > content. Ofcourse, it has built-in activities and tools etc but when it<br>
> > comes to learning for exams, how can it help the children? I do not have<br>
> a<br>
> > clear understanding of it.<br>
> ><br>
> > This is where you can provide immense value and help.<br>
> ><br>
> > The idea is very simple -<br>
> > Digitize textbooks of Std 1 to 4 (primary school) for OLPC. And, to start<br>
> > with, you can focus on Science, Maths and one language.<br>
> ><br>
> > Most of the syllabus and curriculum is determined by the State Govts. -<br>
> in<br>
> > many cases, the Govt publishes the textbooks and heavily subsidizes it<br>
> for<br>
> > primary students.<br>
> > Now, if instead of carrying paper textbooks, if these kids had it all on<br>
> > their XO or could access it using the XO- it changes the whole equation<br>
> on<br>
> > how the XO gets used! The students don't need to carry any books at all.<br>
> ><br>
> > Do you think you have the capacity to softcopy (digitize) textbooks from<br>
> Std<br>
> > 1 to 4 for 10 major Indian Languages? That would be around (4 classes x 3<br>
> > subjects x 10 languages = 120 books)<br>
> ><br>
> > If you can do this, I am hoping that we can request volunteers around<br>
> India<br>
> > to ship you textbooks. You can then create the soft-copies and I can help<br>
> > package the collection for XO.<br>
> ><br>
> > Sameer, what do you think?<br>
> > I am aware that softcopies take disk space which the XO may not have.<br>
> But,<br>
> > school server can host this or an additional SD card can also help solve<br>
> the<br>
> > problem. In any case, this shouldn't be a big deal. I am also betting<br>
> that<br>
> > since the Govt owns the rights to the educational material, they won't<br>
> have<br>
> > problem if this is made freely available to all kids in India.<br>
> ><br>
> > Harshal<br>
><br>
<br>
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Soundar <<a href="mailto:soundar@eaccessbpo.com" target="_blank">soundar@eaccessbpo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Hello Harshal,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the reply. Really I am very happy to do this. I would like to<br>
know whether the all text books in softcopy ( only for image (PDF ) or<br>
editable Soft copy.) please advice the same. How I will get the entire text<br>
book.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Soundar M<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
> There are two basic pathways to content. Either it is prepackaged by<br>
> the country/state or the school/teachers create it. So, for instance<br>
> you want electronic versions of textbooks, then the books have to be<br>
> scanned or digitized (OCR). NCERT has already done this in an<br>
> experimental mode. <a href="http://www.ncert.nic.in/textbooks/testing/Index.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ncert.nic.in/textbooks/testing/Index.htm</a><br>
> Anything that's HTML/web based for exams etc. are usable with a school<br>
> server. A lot of the material is not clear legally for reuse in such<br>
> environments.<br>
><br>
> The mode of self-exploration and development of content locally is<br>
> based on activities such as Write (word processing), Memorize (memory<br>
> matching), etc. TamTamEdit is a music editing system that allows for<br>
> building card-based music scores, which can then be played in<br>
> TamTamJam.<br>
> <a href="http://tamtam4olpc.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/new-tamtam-90-flat.png" target="_blank">http://tamtam4olpc.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/new-tamtam-90-flat.png</a><br>
><br>
> Etoys is its own authoring system. Sandeep Surve, the teacher in<br>
> Khairat did some of his own development early on. I saw this when I<br>
> was there in 2008. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgKy0SuZJHk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgKy0SuZJHk</a><br>
><br>
> Nepal is using a HTML and Javascript framework that they have<br>
> developed (<a href="http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Karma" target="_blank">http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Karma</a>).<br>
><br>
> The choices are several. A lot depends on who is authoring and how it<br>
> is delivered.<br>
><br>
> Note: A good bit of this discussion should happen on the lists so that<br>
> others can chime in.<br>
><br>
> cheers,<br>
> Sameer<br>
> --<br>
> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.<br>
> Associate Professor, Information Systems<br>
> Director, Campus Business Solutions<br>
> San Francisco State University<br>
> <a href="http://verma.sfsu.edu/" target="_blank">http://verma.sfsu.edu/</a><br>
> <a href="http://cbs.sfsu.edu/" target="_blank">http://cbs.sfsu.edu/</a><br>
> <a href="http://is.sfsu.edu/" target="_blank">http://is.sfsu.edu/</a><br>
><br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:43:03 +0530<br>
From: "Soundar" <<a href="mailto:soundar@eaccessbpo.com" target="_blank">soundar@eaccessbpo.com</a>><br>
Subject: [OLPC India] (no subject)<br>
To: <<a href="mailto:hjawale@gmail.com" target="_blank">hjawale@gmail.com</a>>, <<a href="mailto:India@lists.laptop.org" target="_blank">India@lists.laptop.org</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:20100407041326.F1E162384F@mail.laptop.org" target="_blank">20100407041326.F1E162384F@mail.laptop.org</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Hello Harshal,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks. If I am doing the pilot for the Std 1 Text books for OLPC. I would<br>
like to know the DPI & Mode of the Pages to be scan ( 300 dpi / 1 bit Black<br>
& Whit or 300 dpi gray, if we are do the scanning in Gary the file size to<br>
large .) please advice the same.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Soundar M<br>
<br>
eAccess<br>
<br>
New No.42, Old No.2,<br>
<br>
Vellalar Street,<br>
<br>
Near Best Hospital,<br>
<br>
Kodambakkam,<br>
<br>
Chennai - 600 024<br>
<br>
Mail : <a href="mailto:soundar@eaccessbpo.com" target="_blank">soundar@eaccessbpo.com</a><br>
<br>
Phone : + 91 - 44 - 43565774<br>
<br>
Mobile : + 91 - 9543009993<br>
<br>
_____<br>
<br>
From: Harshal Jawale [mailto:<a href="mailto:hjawale@gmail.com" target="_blank">hjawale@gmail.com</a>]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 8:52 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:India@lists.laptop.org" target="_blank">India@lists.laptop.org</a><br>
Cc: Soundar; Sameer Verma<br>
Subject: Re: Digitizing Primary school textbooks for OLPC, India<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Agreed Sameer. Now that Soundar has shown interest in doing textbook scans -<br>
I think we should open this for inputs from others.<br>
<br>
To keep this discussion streamlined and focused, I would like to suggest<br>
following discussion points:<br>
<br>
1. To facilitate digitization of primary school textbooks, Soundar has<br>
offered his services to scan and digitized textbooks so that they can be<br>
used on OLPC. There are two formats which look attractive,<br>
<br>
a) HTML - as Sameer rightly points out, its easy to keep these on school<br>
servers. For this we would just need image scans of the pages. The images<br>
would need to be optimized to reduce the file sizes. Also, these would need<br>
to be packaged so that the HTML navigation can be incorporated using<br>
Javascript or simple hyperlinks.<br>
<br>
b) PDF - this is the easy option and can also be kept on the school server.<br>
<br>
Thoughts? This is pilot test so lets keep it simple without getting into<br>
painful technical discussions.<br>
2. Can someone check on copyright & legal aspects of scanning primary<br>
school textbooks? Can the scans be used for educational purpose? If not,<br>
what approvals are needed and from whom?<br>
3. Soundar, since you are based in Chennai, can you take couple of Std<br>
1 textbooks from your local schools? Try to find a kid you know and borrow<br>
the textbook for scanning. Please scan in JPG as well as PDF format. We do<br>
not need them to be 'editable'<br>
4. Once we do a pilot scan, then we can check if volunteers across<br>
India can help to collect primary school textbooks in local languages to be<br>
sent to Soundar who can then scan them for XO.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Harshal<br>
<br>
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Sameer Verma <<a href="mailto:sverma@sfsu.edu" target="_blank">sverma@sfsu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Harshal Jawale <<a href="mailto:hjawale@gmail.com" target="_blank">hjawale@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hello Soundar,<br>
><br>
> Thank you for your email and interest in helping out OLPC.<br>
><br>
> Here's what I think:<br>
><br>
> The biggest shortcoming of OLPC in India (& elsewhere) is the lack of<br>
> content. Ofcourse, it has built-in activities and tools etc but when it<br>
> comes to learning for exams, how can it help the children? I do not have a<br>
> clear understanding of it.<br>
><br>
> This is where you can provide immense value and help.<br>
><br>
> The idea is very simple -<br>
> Digitize textbooks of Std 1 to 4 (primary school) for OLPC. And, to start<br>
> with, you can focus on Science, Maths and one language.<br>
><br>
> Most of the syllabus and curriculum is determined by the State Govts. - in<br>
> many cases, the Govt publishes the textbooks and heavily subsidizes it for<br>
> primary students.<br>
> Now, if instead of carrying paper textbooks, if these kids had it all on<br>
> their XO or could access it using the XO- it changes the whole equation on<br>
> how the XO gets used! The students don't need to carry any books at all.<br>
><br>
> Do you think you have the capacity to softcopy (digitize) textbooks from<br>
Std<br>
> 1 to 4 for 10 major Indian Languages? That would be around (4 classes x 3<br>
> subjects x 10 languages = 120 books)<br>
><br>
> If you can do this, I am hoping that we can request volunteers around<br>
India<br>
> to ship you textbooks. You can then create the soft-copies and I can help<br>
> package the collection for XO.<br>
><br>
> Sameer, what do you think?<br>
> I am aware that softcopies take disk space which the XO may not have. But,<br>
> school server can host this or an additional SD card can also help solve<br>
the<br>
> problem. In any case, this shouldn't be a big deal. I am also betting that<br>
> since the Govt owns the rights to the educational material, they won't<br>
have<br>
> problem if this is made freely available to all kids in India.<br>
><br>
> Harshal<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Soundar <<a href="mailto:soundar@eaccessbpo.com" target="_blank">soundar@eaccessbpo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Hello Harshal,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the reply. Really I am very happy to do this. I would like to<br>
know whether the all text books in softcopy ( only for image (PDF ) or<br>
editable Soft copy.) please advice the same. How I will get the entire text<br>
book.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Soundar M<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
There are two basic pathways to content. Either it is prepackaged by<br>
the country/state or the school/teachers create it. So, for instance<br>
you want electronic versions of textbooks, then the books have to be<br>
scanned or digitized (OCR). NCERT has already done this in an<br>
experimental mode. <a href="http://www.ncert.nic.in/textbooks/testing/Index.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ncert.nic.in/textbooks/testing/Index.htm</a><br>
Anything that's HTML/web based for exams etc. are usable with a school<br>
server. A lot of the material is not clear legally for reuse in such<br>
environments.<br>
<br>
The mode of self-exploration and development of content locally is<br>
based on activities such as Write (word processing), Memorize (memory<br>
matching), etc. TamTamEdit is a music editing system that allows for<br>
building card-based music scores, which can then be played in<br>
TamTamJam.<br>
<a href="http://tamtam4olpc.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/new-tamtam-90-flat.png" target="_blank">http://tamtam4olpc.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/new-tamtam-90-flat.png</a><br>
<br>
Etoys is its own authoring system. Sandeep Surve, the teacher in<br>
Khairat did some of his own development early on. I saw this when I<br>
was there in 2008. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgKy0SuZJHk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgKy0SuZJHk</a><br>
<br>
Nepal is using a HTML and Javascript framework that they have<br>
developed (<a href="http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Karma" target="_blank">http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Karma</a>).<br>
<br>
The choices are several. A lot depends on who is authoring and how it<br>
is delivered.<br>
<br>
Note: A good bit of this discussion should happen on the lists so that<br>
others can chime in.<br>
<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
Sameer<br>
--<br>
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.<br>
Associate Professor, Information Systems<br>
Director, Campus Business Solutions<br>
San Francisco State University<br>
<a href="http://verma.sfsu.edu/" target="_blank">http://verma.sfsu.edu/</a><br>
<a href="http://cbs.sfsu.edu/" target="_blank">http://cbs.sfsu.edu/</a><br>
<a href="http://is.sfsu.edu/" target="_blank">http://is.sfsu.edu/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Soundar M<br>
<br>
eAccess<br>
<br>
New No.42, Old No.2,<br>
<br>
Vellalar Street,<br>
<br>
Near Best Hospital,<br>
<br>
Kodambakkam,<br>
<br>
Chennai - 600 024<br>
<br>
Mail : <a href="mailto:soundar@eaccessbpo.com" target="_blank">soundar@eaccessbpo.com</a><br>
<br>
Phone : + 91 - 44 - 43565774<br>
<br>
Mobile : + 91 - 9543009993<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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End of India Digest, Vol 40, Issue 3<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>"Every time the word 'achievement' or 'academics' is used to mean test scores we cheapen the meaning of both terms." --Deborah Meier<br>