[Etoys] Translation paths

Tue Sep 18 14:21:23 EDT 2007

Imo, open-source 'whatever' doesn't absolutely mean reliable,  
consistent, problem-free, ethernal; it does mean open, and that's  
good. Launchpad is a project sponsored by Canonical (the same company  
that sponsors Ubuntu), so there's little reason for f.u.d. about it.

As I told recently, I'm stick with it, as long I believe those  
translations are merged in etoys/constructo by the development team  
(read Takashi, Yoshiki, Bert...)

— paulo

On Sep 18, 2007, at 1:55 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cardenas wrote:

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> Hi,
>
> Juliano Bittencourt wrote:
>>   I think that the launchpad web interface makes the life much  
>> easier to
>> non-technical translators. It's much more user friendly than fedoras
>> system (at least in this stage of development). I've being using  
>> both to
>> create the pt_BR translation of the interface, and my experience with
>> launchpad has a much higher fun factor. You don't have to know  
>> anything
>> about pot, po and mo.
>>    Here in Porto Alegre - Brazil, we don't have problems with  
>> Internet
>> access, so the user experience with web interfaces is not a  
>> problem. But
>> I completely understand the problem of offline translators. It is not
>> possible to use the launchpad web interface and synchronize the  
>> results
>> thought  SVN with the offline translators?
>>
>>    Best,
>>
>>     Juliano
>
>
> As far as I know, launchpad is not an open source project. In  
> particular
> its model of storage is not known and is not possible to
> extract/synchronize data against it. Relying on Non Open Source
> infraestructure for open source development can be a long term  
> problem,
> as bitkeeper issue shown with linux kernel development. I think  
> that we
> need alternative methods.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Offray
>
>
>>
>>
>> Bert Freudenberg escreveu:
>>> So you're saying we should rather ditch launchpad because it is
>>> online-only, yes?
>>>
>>> - Bert -
>>>
>>> On Sep 18, 2007, at 4:57 , Offray Vladimir Luna Cardenas wrote:
>>>
>>>
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>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been working in translations in the past and I agree about
>>>> off-line tools instead of on-line ones. Would be nice to have some
>>>> easy
>>>> control version system like bazaar that can help in synchronizing
>>>> activities using off-line tools, instead of relying on on-line  
>>>> ones.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Offray
>>>>
>>>> Jim Gettys wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hmmm...  Last I knew (a couple years ago), the impression I was  
>>>>> left
>>>>> with was that rosetta wasn't very friendly to offline  
>>>>> translators; we
>>>>> have a situation, particularly initially, where many of the  
>>>>> potential
>>>>> contributors to translations may find a web site both expensive  
>>>>> and
>>>>> slow, and may prefer to use some of the offline translation tools
>>>>> (pootle or kbabel).
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't pretend to know the needs of a translation community: we
>>>>> should
>>>>> optimize toward their work-flow, and adapt to suit.  And we  
>>>>> need to
>>>>> remember the needs of offline translators, who don't yet have
>>>>> regular,
>>>>> economic network access.
>>>>>                                - Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 2007-09-18 at 09:36 +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe we should remove the translations from fedora and just put
>>>>>> up a
>>>>>> notice to use launchpad? I can see how two different places  
>>>>>> might be
>>>>>> confusing, leading to doubled effort. And suppose we actually get
>>>>>> two
>>>>>> different translations - which do we prefer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Bert -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 18, 2007, at 2:18 , Paulo Drummond wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Xavi, Tak —
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here is what I will do:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will continue my contributions using lunchpad; at least to  
>>>>>>> review
>>>>>>> my own translations from past 2-3 years and — with the help  
>>>>>>> of some
>>>>>>> folks who are directly using it with children and their XOs —  
>>>>>>> fill
>>>>>>> most of the blanks in, say, two weeks. Then we can point a  
>>>>>>> revision
>>>>>>> group to consolidate the whole 'trunk' in a given date.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> — paulo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 17, 2007, at 6:29 PM, Xavier Alvarez wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Takashi & Paulo,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree that launchpad is *way* more friendly and useful than
>>>>>>>> fedora's site (at least in it's curernt state). Not only  
>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>> it's web based (less shuffling around of files, possibly  
>>>>>>>> messing
>>>>>>>> up encodings and other nuances) but you can pull strings  
>>>>>>>> from an
>>>>>>>> apparently vast set of previous translations... allowing  
>>>>>>>> greater
>>>>>>>> consistency of protocols and idioms for each language.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given that Etoys is highly fragmented (lots of POTs) and if  
>>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>>> pot is translated by a different translator the risks of ending
>>>>>>>> up with a fully de-localized etoys is high...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> iow, it will all be in a given language, but with no  
>>>>>>>> consistency
>>>>>>>> for terms, objects and 'messages'.  It may end up being a  
>>>>>>>> useless
>>>>>>>> environment that nobody but a fully bilingual 'developer' that
>>>>>>>> can translate back into english and map it into their knowledge
>>>>>>>> of the environment will be able to profit from (I've witnessed
>>>>>>>> those kind of 'localizations', and they are not nice)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My question is: how will we manage?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having etoys' POTs 'hosted' in both is confusing because we  
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> no clear flow for either plus (personally) I have no clue how
>>>>>>>> will the integration work.  So I can't even start telling other
>>>>>>>> translators or posting on the wiki how to go around
>>>>>>>> collaborating....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BTW, this applies not only to etoys, but all other l10n  
>>>>>>>> stuff...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Xavier
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Monday 17 September 2007 16:11, Takashi Yamamiya wrote:
>>>>>>>> TY> Hi Paulo,
>>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>>> TY> Paulo Drummond wrote:
>>>>>>>> TY> > Hi Takashi,
>>>>>>>> TY> >
>>>>>>>> TY> > Don't you think the translations.launchpad is a clear,
>>>>>>>> TY> > easier way for everyone who wants to contribute?
>>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>>> TY> Yes, Maybe...
>>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>>> TY> Because I'm not sure what is the best way to manage our
>>>>>>>> TY> translations, so I set up two options at Fedora site (as a
>>>>>>>> TY> good citizen in OLPC community) and launchpad (nice web  
>>>>>>>> ui).
>>>>>>>> TY> You can use either way for a while, and we would choose one
>>>>>>>> TY> of them later.
>>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>>> TY> - http://translate.fedoraproject.org/module/olpc-etoys
>>>>>>>> TY> - https://translations.launchpad.net/etoys/
>>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>>> TY> Any way, the master is
>>>>>>>> http://etoys.laptop.org/svn/trunk/etoys/po/
>>>>>>>> TY> I will merge into here by my hand at first.
>>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>>> TY> Now we have two different aspect of issues. One is a just
>>>>>>>> TY> technical issue, our gettext support isn't good enough yet.
>>>>>>>> TY> Other one is translation process, we need to make clear how
>>>>>>>> TY> to adjust each translation volunteers.
>>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>>> TY> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> TY> - Takashi
>>>>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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