[Etoys] Translation paths

Offray Vladimir Luna Cardenas offray.luna at javeriana.edu.co
Tue Sep 18 00:55:13 EDT 2007

Hash: SHA1


Juliano Bittencourt wrote:
>   I think that the launchpad web interface makes the life much easier to 
> non-technical translators. It's much more user friendly than fedoras 
> system (at least in this stage of development). I've being using both to 
> create the pt_BR translation of the interface, and my experience with 
> launchpad has a much higher fun factor. You don't have to know anything 
> about pot, po and mo.
>    Here in Porto Alegre - Brazil, we don't have problems with Internet 
> access, so the user experience with web interfaces is not a problem. But 
> I completely understand the problem of offline translators. It is not 
> possible to use the launchpad web interface and synchronize the results 
> thought  SVN with the offline translators?
>    Best,
>     Juliano

As far as I know, launchpad is not an open source project. In particular
its model of storage is not known and is not possible to
extract/synchronize data against it. Relying on Non Open Source
infraestructure for open source development can be a long term problem,
as bitkeeper issue shown with linux kernel development. I think that we
need alternative methods.



> Bert Freudenberg escreveu:
>> So you're saying we should rather ditch launchpad because it is  
>> online-only, yes?
>> - Bert -
>> On Sep 18, 2007, at 4:57 , Offray Vladimir Luna Cardenas wrote:
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>> Hi,
>>> I have been working in translations in the past and I agree about
>>> off-line tools instead of on-line ones. Would be nice to have some  
>>> easy
>>> control version system like bazaar that can help in synchronizing
>>> activities using off-line tools, instead of relying on on-line ones.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Offray
>>> Jim Gettys wrote:
>>>> Hmmm...  Last I knew (a couple years ago), the impression I was left
>>>> with was that rosetta wasn't very friendly to offline translators; we
>>>> have a situation, particularly initially, where many of the potential
>>>> contributors to translations may find a web site both expensive and
>>>> slow, and may prefer to use some of the offline translation tools
>>>> (pootle or kbabel).
>>>> I don't pretend to know the needs of a translation community: we  
>>>> should
>>>> optimize toward their work-flow, and adapt to suit.  And we need to
>>>> remember the needs of offline translators, who don't yet have  
>>>> regular,
>>>> economic network access.
>>>>                                - Jim
>>>> On Tue, 2007-09-18 at 09:36 +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>>>>> Maybe we should remove the translations from fedora and just put  
>>>>> up a
>>>>> notice to use launchpad? I can see how two different places might be
>>>>> confusing, leading to doubled effort. And suppose we actually get  
>>>>> two
>>>>> different translations - which do we prefer?
>>>>> - Bert -
>>>>> On Sep 18, 2007, at 2:18 , Paulo Drummond wrote:
>>>>>> Xavi, Tak —
>>>>>> Here is what I will do:
>>>>>> I will continue my contributions using lunchpad; at least to review
>>>>>> my own translations from past 2-3 years and — with the help of some
>>>>>> folks who are directly using it with children and their XOs — fill
>>>>>> most of the blanks in, say, two weeks. Then we can point a revision
>>>>>> group to consolidate the whole 'trunk' in a given date.
>>>>>> — paulo
>>>>>> On Sep 17, 2007, at 6:29 PM, Xavier Alvarez wrote:
>>>>>>> Takashi & Paulo,
>>>>>>> I agree that launchpad is *way* more friendly and useful than
>>>>>>> fedora's site (at least in it's curernt state). Not only because
>>>>>>> it's web based (less shuffling around of files, possibly messing
>>>>>>> up encodings and other nuances) but you can pull strings from an
>>>>>>> apparently vast set of previous translations... allowing greater
>>>>>>> consistency of protocols and idioms for each language.
>>>>>>> Given that Etoys is highly fragmented (lots of POTs) and if each
>>>>>>> pot is translated by a different translator the risks of ending
>>>>>>> up with a fully de-localized etoys is high...
>>>>>>> iow, it will all be in a given language, but with no consistency
>>>>>>> for terms, objects and 'messages'.  It may end up being a useless
>>>>>>> environment that nobody but a fully bilingual 'developer' that
>>>>>>> can translate back into english and map it into their knowledge
>>>>>>> of the environment will be able to profit from (I've witnessed
>>>>>>> those kind of 'localizations', and they are not nice)
>>>>>>> My question is: how will we manage?
>>>>>>> Having etoys' POTs 'hosted' in both is confusing because we have
>>>>>>> no clear flow for either plus (personally) I have no clue how
>>>>>>> will the integration work.  So I can't even start telling other
>>>>>>> translators or posting on the wiki how to go around
>>>>>>> collaborating....
>>>>>>> BTW, this applies not only to etoys, but all other l10n stuff...
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Xavier
>>>>>>> On Monday 17 September 2007 16:11, Takashi Yamamiya wrote:
>>>>>>> TY> Hi Paulo,
>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>> TY> Paulo Drummond wrote:
>>>>>>> TY> > Hi Takashi,
>>>>>>> TY> >
>>>>>>> TY> > Don't you think the translations.launchpad is a clear,
>>>>>>> TY> > easier way for everyone who wants to contribute?
>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>> TY> Yes, Maybe...
>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>> TY> Because I'm not sure what is the best way to manage our
>>>>>>> TY> translations, so I set up two options at Fedora site (as a
>>>>>>> TY> good citizen in OLPC community) and launchpad (nice web ui).
>>>>>>> TY> You can use either way for a while, and we would choose one
>>>>>>> TY> of them later.
>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>> TY> - http://translate.fedoraproject.org/module/olpc-etoys
>>>>>>> TY> - https://translations.launchpad.net/etoys/
>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>> TY> Any way, the master is
>>>>>>> http://etoys.laptop.org/svn/trunk/etoys/po/
>>>>>>> TY> I will merge into here by my hand at first.
>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>> TY> Now we have two different aspect of issues. One is a just
>>>>>>> TY> technical issue, our gettext support isn't good enough yet.
>>>>>>> TY> Other one is translation process, we need to make clear how
>>>>>>> TY> to adjust each translation volunteers.
>>>>>>> TY>
>>>>>>> TY> Cheers,
>>>>>>> TY> - Takashi
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