[Etoys] some comments

[Tony Forster]

Thanks Alan for an insightful view on "gaining enlightenment" through game 
making.

Exposure to a complex thinking environment does not of itself lead to deep 
thinking or enlightenment. You mention "Zen and the Art of Archery" , a 
similar argument was put in ON THE COGNITIVE EFFECTS OF LEARNING COMPUTER 
PROGRAMMING, ROY D. PEA and D. MIDIAN KURLAND 1984 
http://scil.stanford.edu/about/staff/bios/PDF/Cog_Effects_Prog where Pea 
quite successfully argues, I think, that the case for Logo had been used 
many times before in other domains:  "This belief, although new in its 
application to this domain, is an old idea in a new costume which has been 
worn often before. In its common extreme form, it is based on an assumption 
about learning - that spontaneous experience with a powerful symbolic system 
will have beneficial cognitive consequences, especially for higher order 
cognitive skills. Similar arguments have been offered in centuries past for 
mathematics, logic, writing systems, and Latin"

What this analysis overlooks is engagement. The levels of achievement are 
quite astounding for kids who are offered a relevant and authentic challenge 
and the right tools. Then the "powerful symbolic system" does have 
"beneficial cognitive consequences" . Maybe not the enlightenment that we 
would hope for but at least an understanding of mathematics, logic, 
kinematics, also social skills, affective benefits "I like school" and 
metacognitive or self regulatory benefits.

I think it essential that etoys is at least as motivating as Game Maker and 
at least as easy at the entry level. I think there is a lot to learn from 
teachers like Bill who have a long track record of successfully using such 
tools and getting exceptional results from them.