[Sugar-devel] NPR story on OLPC in Peru

Sun Oct 14 11:51:53 EDT 2012

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Walter Bender <walter.bender at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Christoph Derndorfer
> <christoph.derndorfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Walter Bender <walter.bender at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Christoph Derndorfer
> >> <christoph.derndorfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
> >> > <gerald.ardito at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I wanted to share that we have faced the same criticisms in our
> school
> >> >> regarding the XOs. For the last four years, the teachers and students
> >> >> have
> >> >> complained that the devices do not connect well or reliably to our
> >> >> wireless
> >> >> network.
> >> >>
> >> >> Obviously, in our case, we have a wireless network and essentially
> >> >> continuous access to the internet. But, what I have had to fight
> >> >> against is
> >> >> that this is the most basic use of any computing device.
> >> >>
> >> >> The only way I have been able to stem this tide is to come up with
> >> >> projects and programs that made use of the XOs as standalone or mesh
> >> >> networked devices. For example, we have done a lot with Memorize and
> >> >> Etoys
> >> >> and Scratch (and beginning to work with TurtleBlocks). I have found
> >> >> that
> >> >> once the students and teachers are involved with these activities,
> the
> >> >> internet stuff goes away.
> >> >>
> >> >> But the bigger point that is missed in the story, and the broader
> >> >> conversation, is that the XOs and Sugar tap into non-traditional
> >> >> methods of
> >> >> teaching and learning. When this invisible line is crossed, real
> magic
> >> >> happens. It is the conversations which illuminate this invisible line
> >> >> that
> >> >> is tough.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Gerald,
> >> >
> >> > please don't forget that very few of the teachers in Peru have the
> >> > affordances available to you when you worked against that tide and
> >> > helped
> >> > your pupils reach that invisible line. You have received countless
> years
> >> > of
> >> > professional training, have ready access to the world's and the
> >> > community's
> >> > accumulated knowledge about using XOs and Sugar (thanks to the
> >> > Internet),
> >> > deal with student bodies who generally don't go hungry, have a pyhsic
> >> > and
> >> > social infrastructure that's available at very few Peruvian schools,
> >> > etc.
> >> >
> >> > In short, I believe in the importance of crossing that invisible line
> >> > and I
> >> > have been lucky enough to see some glimpses of that happening in the
> >> > past
> >> > few years. However a significant number of pupils and teachers in Peru
> >> > are
> >> > miles and miles away from that line and will need other ways of
> support
> >> > to
> >> > even get them close to it.
> >> >
> >> > I also think it's odd to see how the role of the Internet and the
> >> > connectivity it enables between people is apparently deemphasized in
> >> > this
> >> > conversation. I remember a time where Connectivity was one of the 5
> >> > principles of OLPC, and for good reasons I dare say. Due to the
> >> > limitations
> >> > of the Mesh network (and similarly so the newer ad-hoc networking
> >> > options)
> >> > and the lack of infrastructure components such as access points most
> >> > pupils
> >> > and teachers in Peru barely have access to local connectivity and all
> >> > the
> >> > affordances (incl. Sugar's collaboration features) and value it
> >> > provides.
> >>
> >> No one is discounting the dire state of connectivity in Peru and as
> >> CJL pointed out, there are people activitly trying to do something
> >> about it, not just talk about it.
> >
> >
> > Point taken.
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Also I believe that people here will simply have to get used to bad
> news
> >> > (whether fully justified or not) coming out of Peru. The project there
> >> > still
> >> > has potential but unless a lot of additional resources and brain power
> >> > are
> >> > invested into its overall value proposition and usefulness will always
> >> > remain questionable at best.
> >>
> >> I think you are projecting your own agenda on this discussion.
> >
> >
> > And you're not? ;-)
>
> Actually, not. I am stating my opinion, not putting words in the
> mouths of others. There is a difference.

If that's how your perceived my previous message then I apologize, that was
not my intention.

> >
> >>
> >> Again,
> >> no one is burying their head in the sand re short-comings, but at
> >> least some of us believe that lack of Internet access does not mean
> >> lack of opportunity to learn.
> >
> >
> > I'm not saying that a lack of Internet access equals a lack of learning
> > opportunities (and I agree with your fundamental criticism of the NPR
> > article there). At the same time there's no doubt that what is already an
> > *extremely* challenging thing to do under the best of circumstances
> (getting
> > across that line) is made even harder without Internet connectivity or
> > offline substitutes such as school servers.
>
> Agreed. But perhaps for different reasons. I think the value of the
> Internet to the project is much more about building a community of
> practice and support than accessing learning materials. The Amazonas
> page in Facebook is a case in point.
>

To me the experiences, good practices, lesson plans, etc. documented by
teachers are as much learning materials as anything directly used by pupils.

Cheers,
Christoph

> regards.
>
> -walter
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Christoph
> >
> >>
> >> regards.
> >>
> >> -walter
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > Christoph
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Just my two cents.
> >> >> Gerald
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 8:29 AM, Christoph Derndorfer
> >> >> <christoph.derndorfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 2:21 AM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu>
> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jza at oooes.org
> >
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>> > On 10/13/12, Walter Bender <walter.bender at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>> >> Alexandro,
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> I think you are grossly underestimating the connectivity problem
> >> >>>> >> in
> >> >>>> >> Peru.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > Yes maybe, but I understand most educational systems dont have
> >> >>>> > enough
> >> >>>> > budget to acquire connectivity so getting connectivity from other
> >> >>>> > sources like public buildings, libraries, will allow other
> resource
> >> >>>> > to
> >> >>>> > come through without needing to be funded by the educational
> >> >>>> > budget.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > Now if we are talking about, the whole town not having ways on
> >> >>>> > connecting, then the next option would be looking for alternative
> >> >>>> > sources, in Mexico they used Satelite modems.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/10324524/Capacitacion-Para-Maestros-Uso-Del-Aula-Enciclomedia#page=15
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > But other mediums like DSL modems attached to a wifi router will
> be
> >> >>>> > able to get some basic Internet for HTML/images, IRC, etc. The
> big
> >> >>>> > question is about the level of connectivity for copper phone
> lines.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> It seems that a fair number of offline requirements will be served
> by
> >> >>>> the XS school server, but I don't see that show up in any of the
> >> >>>> conversations. Does any location in Peru use any version of the XS?
> >> >>>> (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/School_server)
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I'm not aware of any schools having school servers, at least they
> >> >>> didn't
> >> >>> have them when I was there in 2010. The next best thing were USB
> >> >>> drives with
> >> >>> some collections of offline materials compiled by DIGETE but as far
> as
> >> >>> I can
> >> >>> tell only a certain percentage of teachers ever received theirs.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Cheers,
> >> >>> Christoph
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> cheers,
> >> >>>> Sameer
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> regards.
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> -walter
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >> --
> >> >>>> >> Walter Bender
> >> >>>> >> Sugar Labs
> >> >>>> >> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> >> Devel mailing list
> >> >>>> >> Devel at lists.laptop.org
> >> >>>> >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> >> >>>> >>
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > --
> >> >>>> > Alexandro Colorado
> >> >>>> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice
> >> >>>> > http://es.openoffice.org
> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> > Devel mailing list
> >> >>>> > Devel at lists.laptop.org
> >> >>>> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
> >> >>>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >> >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> Christoph Derndorfer
> >> >>>
> >> >>> volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at]
> >> >>> editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com]
> >> >>> contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net]
> >> >>>
> >> >>> e-mail: christoph at derndorfer.eu
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Sugar-devel mailing list
> >> >>> Sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org
> >> >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Christoph Derndorfer
> >> >
> >> > volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at]
> >> > editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com]
> >> > contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net]
> >> >
> >> > e-mail: christoph at derndorfer.eu
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Walter Bender
> >> Sugar Labs
> >> http://www.sugarlabs.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Christoph Derndorfer
> >
> > volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at]
> > editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com]
> > contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net]
> >
> > e-mail: christoph at derndorfer.eu
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>

-- 
Christoph Derndorfer

volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at]
editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com]
contributor, TechnikBasteln [www.technikbasteln.net]

e-mail: christoph at derndorfer.eu
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