<div dir="ltr">Here are a few more details:<br><br>We tried a Fedora 9 LiveCD also and it never fully booted.<br><br>The TinyLinux we used was Puppy Linux. It was remarkably faster then Fedora and Ubuntu.<br><br>My notes and a link to Walter's notes are here:<br>
<a href="http://schoolkey.net/blog/2008/10/04/sugar-pups">http://schoolkey.net/blog/2008/10/04/sugar-pups</a><br><br>Thanks,<br>Caroline<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 12:37 PM, Walter Bender <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:walter.bender@gmail.com">walter.bender@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">CCing the Sugar list.<br>
<br>
It seems that one of the problems we will be encountering with generic<br>
spins is footprint. Even a standard Ubuntu without Sugar was seeming<br>
too fat to load from a LiveCD on a Pentium 4 with 256K of DRAM.<br>
Although we didn't try it, I expect Fedora would present similar<br>
challenges. I don't know how feasible it is to make a lean Fedora for<br>
these use cases: Maybe the subset of packages we grab for the OLPC<br>
image only. I defer to the magic that Dennis and Greg can yield.<br>
Meanwhile, it is probably worth looking at some of the purposefully<br>
small distros, such as TinyLinux, to see how bloated they get when we<br>
build Sugar on top of them. It may be a good interim-term solution.<br>
<br>
-walter<br>
<br>
On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Caroline Meeks<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><<a href="mailto:caroline@solutiongrove.com">caroline@solutiongrove.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Yes, I'm absolutely willing to test any and all USB work! I have several<br>
> test computers at home and when we get something that works on everything<br>
> here I can go into Shaw any Friday morning.<br>
><br>
> Thank you for your help.<br>
><br>
> Caroline<br>
><br>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 12:18 PM, David Farning <<a href="mailto:dfarning@sugarlabs.org">dfarning@sugarlabs.org</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Yes, the Sugar spin is really an early beta. The engineers at Redhat were<br>
>> still working on it Thursday night to get it ready for you and another<br>
>> Boston area deployment to test.<br>
>><br>
>> Are you willing to try again this Friday? We can leverage your<br>
>> willingness to test the spin as an incentive for the Redhat engineers to<br>
>> improve the spin for another release later this week.<br>
>><br>
>> thanks<br>
>> david<br>
>><br>
>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Caroline Meeks<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:caroline@solutiongrove.com">caroline@solutiongrove.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> hmm new sugar-spin did not boot my home 4GB Pentium 4 successfully. So<br>
>>> it may not be ready for prime time yet.<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Caroline Meeks<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:caroline@solutiongrove.com">caroline@solutiongrove.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Cool, I have a Fedora CD and i also just burned the new sugar-spin.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I have bootable USBs of other things.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> So I think we will have the tools we need for diagnosis.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> See you soon.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Walter Bender <<a href="mailto:walter.bender@gmail.com">walter.bender@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I recommend the Fedora CD for today. If I get a chance, I'll try to<br>
>>>>> make a LiveUSB of the same image as well.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> -walter<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Caroline Meeks<br>
>>>>> <<a href="mailto:caroline@solutiongrove.com">caroline@solutiongrove.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> > Hi David,<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > Any luck with the USB? How is it going?<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > Walter and I will be at the school today and we will try the Fedora<br>
>>>>> > CDs and<br>
>>>>> > the joyride CD.<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > Anythign else you want us to try while we are there?<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > Thanks,<br>
>>>>> > Caroline<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 7:17 PM, David Farning<br>
>>>>> > <<a href="mailto:dfarning@sugarlabs.org">dfarning@sugarlabs.org</a>><br>
>>>>> > wrote:<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Caroline Meeks<br>
>>>>> >> <<a href="mailto:caroline@solutiongrove.com">caroline@solutiongrove.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> Hi David,<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> Since I don't have an exact duplicate of the machine here, Friday's<br>
>>>>> >>> trip<br>
>>>>> >>> will be devoted to figuring out the answers to your questions.<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> Let me test my understanding. Are these statements true? -<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> The XO hardware only has 256MB of RAM so in theory Sugar should<br>
>>>>> >>> work on<br>
>>>>> >>> a Pentium 4 with 256MB RAM<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> This is not necessarily true. The xo runs a heavily modified<br>
>>>>> >> version of<br>
>>>>> >> Fedora. We are putting Sugar on top of stock Fedora, Debian, and<br>
>>>>> >> Ubuntu<br>
>>>>> >> distributions. The trade off is engineering time vs. size. It take<br>
>>>>> >> a<br>
>>>>> >> tremendous amount of engineering time to maintain a modified<br>
>>>>> >> distribution.<br>
>>>>> >> By using stock distributions as our base we greatly reduce the<br>
>>>>> >> effort needed<br>
>>>>> >> to push Sugar through the distribution channels.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> The JoyRide live CD you were giving out at the conference will<br>
>>>>> >>> likely not<br>
>>>>> >>> work unless there is more then 300MB of RAM<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> I am not sure of the specific needs of the version of Sugar we<br>
>>>>> >> distributed. Rather then try to determine if a older CD works,<br>
>>>>> >> let's see if<br>
>>>>> >> stock fedora, ubuntu and debian work on your equipment.<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> Let me know what information you'd like me to collect on Friday.<br>
>>>>> >>> Here<br>
>>>>> >>> are my thoughts.<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> Goal 1 - See if we can get Sugar to run stable on the Shaw Computer<br>
>>>>> >>> Lab<br>
>>>>> >>> computers. Sounds like I can probably just burn a bunch of CDs<br>
>>>>> >>> and use<br>
>>>>> >>> those. What do you want me to test?<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> The distributions listed on this page:<br>
>>>>> >>> <a href="http://www.sugarlabs.org/go/Supported_systems" target="_blank">http://www.sugarlabs.org/go/Supported_systems</a><br>
>>>>> >>> Are the various ones for different Linux Distros full system or are<br>
>>>>> >>> they<br>
>>>>> >>> just the files you need to add Sugar to an existing Linux install?<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> Fedora This one? <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora" target="_blank">http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora</a> i686 - Live<br>
>>>>> >>> CD<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> Yes, the live cd would be the place to start.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> 6.3. x86 Specifics for Fedora<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> This section covers specific information about Fedora and the x86<br>
>>>>> >> hardware<br>
>>>>> >> platform.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> <a href="http://6.3.1." target="_blank">6.3.1.</a> Hardware requirements for x86<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> In order to use specific features of Fedora 9 during or after<br>
>>>>> >> installation, you may need to know details of other hardware<br>
>>>>> >> components such<br>
>>>>> >> as video and network cards.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> <a href="http://6.3.1.1" target="_blank">6.3.1.1</a>. Processor and memory<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> The following CPU specifications are stated in terms of Intel<br>
>>>>> >> processors.<br>
>>>>> >> Other processors, such as those from AMD, Cyrix, and VIA that are<br>
>>>>> >> compatible<br>
>>>>> >> with and equivalent to the following Intel processors, may also be<br>
>>>>> >> used with<br>
>>>>> >> Fedora.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> Fedora 9 requires an Intel Pentium or better processor, and is<br>
>>>>> >> optimized<br>
>>>>> >> for Pentium 4 and later processors.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> Recommended for text-mode: 200 MHz Pentium-class or better.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> Recommended for graphical: 400 MHz Pentium II or better.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> Minimum RAM for text-mode: 128MiB.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> Minimum RAM for graphical: 192MiB.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> Recommended RAM for graphical: 256MiB.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> According to the release notes Fedora should work with 256MB<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> Ubuntu - <a href="http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download" target="_blank">http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download</a><br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> Yes again.<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> UbuntuMobile - Where is the best place to get an iso?<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> <a href="http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Operating-Systems/Other/Ubuntu-MID-39213.shtml" target="_blank">http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Operating-Systems/Other/Ubuntu-MID-39213.shtml</a><br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> For now let's forget about Gnome Mobile.<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> Sugar - Where can I get an iso for a live CD that will has a chance<br>
>>>>> >>> of<br>
>>>>> >>> working on 256MB of RAM? Should I use any of these?<br>
>>>>> >>> <a href="http://dev.laptop.org/pub/livebackupcd/" target="_blank">http://dev.laptop.org/pub/livebackupcd/</a><br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >> I will send you links to newer Live CD by Thursday evening.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> Goal 2 - Demoing Sugar capability to the Shaw School Staff.<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> It turns out the technology teacher Marian is out this Friday so<br>
>>>>> >>> the goal<br>
>>>>> >>> of showing the collaborative features maybe next week. However,<br>
>>>>> >>> doing a<br>
>>>>> >>> demo for adults on a wired network shouldn't be that hard right? Is<br>
>>>>> >>> there<br>
>>>>> >>> some Jabber server that adults who own XOs are using that we could<br>
>>>>> >>> use for<br>
>>>>> >>> the demo?<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> I was asked at least ten times about the availability of Jabber<br>
>>>>> >> servers<br>
>>>>> >> for test purposes at Openminds. As a result, I am looking into<br>
>>>>> >> setting up a<br>
>>>>> >> jabber server so each community of Sugar users will have access to a<br>
>>>>> >> community specific server. Once that is in place it should not be<br>
>>>>> >> too hard<br>
>>>>> >> to set a batch of USB keys or Live CDs to go to that server by<br>
>>>>> >> default.<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> Goal 3 - Testing speed and durability of Sugar on a USB Key.<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> I can do initial testing of that from here. We don't have to do<br>
>>>>> >>> that at<br>
>>>>> >>> the Shaw but if we had a USB that would be good.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> This would be of great value to our developers.<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> Thanks!<br>
>>>>> >>> Caroline<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> Would you be interested in moving this conversation to our mailing<br>
>>>>> >> list<br>
>>>>> >> at <a href="mailto:iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org">iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org</a> so we can publicly archive this<br>
>>>>> >> conversation.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> Thanks<br>
>>>>> >> david<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > --<br>
>>>>> > Caroline Meeks<br>
>>>>> > Solution Grove<br>
>>>>> > Caroline@SolutionGrove.com<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > 617-500-3488 - Office<br>
>>>>> > 505-213-3268 - Fax<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> --<br>
>>>>> Walter Bender<br>
>>>>> Sugar Labs<br>
>>>>> <a href="http://www.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">http://www.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Caroline Meeks<br>
>>>> Solution Grove<br>
>>>> Caroline@SolutionGrove.com<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> 617-500-3488 - Office<br>
>>>> 505-213-3268 - Fax<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Caroline Meeks<br>
>>> Solution Grove<br>
>>> Caroline@SolutionGrove.com<br>
>>><br>
>>> 617-500-3488 - Office<br>
>>> 505-213-3268 - Fax<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Caroline Meeks<br>
> Solution Grove<br>
> Caroline@SolutionGrove.com<br>
><br>
> 617-500-3488 - Office<br>
> 505-213-3268 - Fax<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div>--<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">Walter Bender<br>
Sugar Labs<br>
<a href="http://www.sugarlabs.org" target="_blank">http://www.sugarlabs.org</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Caroline Meeks<br>Solution Grove<br>Caroline@SolutionGrove.com<br><br>617-500-3488 - Office<br>505-213-3268 - Fax<br>
</div>