[sugar] Education?
Bert Freudenberg
bert at freudenbergs.de
Sat Mar 10 07:47:48 EST 2007
On Mar 10, 2007, at 12:35 , Don Hopkins wrote:
> Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>> Hi Guido,
>>
>> I still think your choice of words was inappropriate.
> What's inappropriate about "Thanks Alan. I'm quite satisfied with
> this response and I agree with the priorities!"?
Guido's original posting was not cited below. I won't repeat it, it's
in the archives, but it involved the word "anathema", hence my response.
> I totally agree with Guido, and applaud Alan for his response and
> priorities!
>> If anything is an anathema, then it's the huge body of
>> impenetrable C code in linux, the libraries, X11, gecko, gtk,
>> cairo, and, yes, underlying Python, too, and even Squeak, though
>> to a much lesser extent.
> Just because something sucks isn't a reason not to use it if there
> is currently no better alternative. Can you suggest or implement
> better alternatives to any of those modules?
Sure. In fact, VPRI is working on it:
http://vpri.org/html/work/ifnct.htm
> If not, then let's keep using them until we have enough time and
> experience to replace them, so we can learn from their strengths
> and weaknesses.
Of course, that's what we are doing right now - take the best of what
we've got already and get that to the kids.
> It would be unwise to attempt to reinvent the wheel without ever
> using one.
Indeed. However, as Alan likes to point out, a lot of effort nowadays
goes into attempting to reinvent flat tires.
>> This prevents opening the hood, seeing how things work, modifying
>> it, constructing new things etc. *This* is against the OLPC
>> philosophy, which explicitly encourages constructionist learning.
> We are actively engaged in the process of constructionist learning
> ourselves, by building things with these these flawed but useful
> tools. Constructionism is not just for kids! Software developers
> learn that way too.
Hey, you tell me ;)
>> Sadly, there isn't anything comparable to Etoys in the whole open
>> source world. Actually, strike that last five words. It's not like
>> most of it couldn't be done in Python, but for whatever reason,
>> nobody does it. I'd be happy to hear otherwise, but so far, the
>> Python community (or anybody else for that matter) to me does not
>> exactly appear enthusiastic about creating something that could
>> replace Etoys.
>>
>> - Bert -
> I am quite excited about creating something in Python that is based
> on the ideas from great systems like Etoys, HyperCard, HyperLook,
> Robot Odyssey, Body Electric / Bounce, and other visual programming
> languages.
Of course, Etoys isn't just about visual programming. It's not even
about programming per se. It's about an integrated system that allows
seamless experimenting with all sorts of media:
http://squeakland.org/pdf/etoys_n_learning.pdf
> Now that the open source status of SimCity is out of the closet,
> please take a look at my previous posting with the idea of re-
> implementing SimCity on top of such a system:
>
> Ideas for Sugar development environment from HyperLook SimCity
> http://mailman.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2006-December/001022.html
>
> SJ Klein and I recently talked with Charles Normal of Electronic
> Arts about making SimCity and other games open source for the OLPC,
> and he asked us to make a list of games that we would like EA to
> make open source so we can port to the OLPC.
>
> Which games and other software should we ask EA and other
> publishers to make open source and contribute to the OLPC project?
>
> One at the top of my list is "Klik-and-Play", Maxis's visual game
> programming language for kids.
One at the top of my list is Fritz, the leading chess engine by
Chessbase. I read an interview with their chairman where he expressed
his genuine interest at bringing chess to kids.
> Of course it might just be more powerful and efficient to re-
> implement something like Klik-and-Play from scratch in Python, as a
> plug-in visual scripting component, which can be used to script a
> HyperCard-like gui environment, and games built on top of it like
> SimCity and Robot Odyssey.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klik_&_Play
>
> I also would love to make a massively multi-player version of
> SimAnt: One Ant Per Child!
Cool :) Not multi-player, but have you seen the massively parallel
particle simulations (Kedama) in Etoys?
- Bert -
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