[sugar] Docs?

Wed Aug 1 19:16:27 EDT 2007

I am not coming up with these ideas, just relaying them.  If you wish 
for comment by the entire community, including those who know more about 
it than me, use the "Reply to All" feature of your mail client rather 
than sending private replies - I am rather unqualified to answer most of 
your questions.

Ryan

dthornburg at aol.com wrote:
> Dear Ryan,
>
> I don't doubt the solid pedagogical underpinnings of the OLPC, and 
> fully endorse the principles.  As the 25th employee at Xerox PARC I 
> have more than a passing interest in user interfaces, and I applaud 
> Sugar's innovative approach (and talk about it in many of my 
> presentations).  That said, my experience using technology with kids 
> since the 1970's has revealed different levels of "obviousness," and 
> this is reflected in the many spirited discussions on this list.  
> Pardon me if it appears that the idea of "obviating the need for 
> documentation" is slightly hubristic.  There will be some (especially 
> among the adult decision-making community) who will benefit from some 
> documentation.  Are you suggesting that (for example) eToys needs no 
> documentation?  If so how do you explain that the first Smalltalk 
> documentation consisted of TWO hardbound books published by 
> Addison-Welsey.
>
> I am a huge fan of having kids jump into the deep end of new 
> projects.  I also have found that helpful resources are quite valuable.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> David Thornburg, PhD
> Director, Global Operations
> Thornburg Center
> Chicago, USA | Recife, Brasil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan Pavlik <abiryan at ryand.net>
> To: dthornburg at aol.com; Sugar Mailing List <sugar at lists.laptop.org>
> Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:57 pm
> Subject: Re: [sugar] Docs?
>
> By self-documenting I mean that the interface obviates the need for 
> documentation, not that it produces written documentation. You might 
> be interested to look at http://wiki.laptop.org - it is as much 
> (more!) an education project as a laptop project, and the educational 
> theory behind the decision decisions is pretty interesting. 
>  
> Ryan 
>  
> dthornburg at aol.com <mailto:dthornburg at aol.com> wrote: 
> > If the OLPC is self-documenting, who is handling this, how much 
> memory > does it take, and what does the interface look like? It seems 
> that > this would have come up in conversations by now. 
> > 
> > Just asking. 
> > 
> > David Thornburg 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: Ryan Pavlik <abiryan at ryand.net <mailto:abiryan at ryand.net>> 
> > To: Edward Cherlin <echerlin at gmail.com <mailto:echerlin at gmail.com>> 
> > Cc: sugar at lists.laptop.org <mailto:sugar at lists.laptop.org> 
> > Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 7:35 pm 
> > Subject: Re: [sugar] Docs? 
> > 
> > I am certainly not an OLPC rep, but what I have seen suggests that 
> the > 
> > intent is for the machines to be self-instructing and not requiring > 
> > documentation. In addition to the massive translation demands that > 
> > would require, it also does not coincide with the educational > 
> > theories/practices that the organization is pursuing. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Of course, if you want to make developer documentation, then I think > 
> > anyone's answer would be, dive in! :) Just ask which regions are 
> stable > 
> > first so your work doesn't get obsoleted quickly. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Ryan 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Edward Cherlin wrote: 
> > 
> > > Is there any plan for official software documentation? I have been 
> a > 
> > > Senior Tech Writer for the last 10 years and would be delighted to > 
> > > work on it (particularly if someone like Red Hat would support me 
> to > 
> > > do it 60 hours a week *<{%-{]}}} <--Goggle-eyed geek in clown hat, > 
> > > moustache, and full beard). Actually, I have been writing about XO > 
> > > software off and on ever since the Dynabook days, when Xerox 
> licensed > 
> > > Smalltalk to Apple, HP, and others in 1981, during my market 
> research > 
> > > period. 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > For example, I wrote in a study of so-called educational software 
> back > 
> > > then that the overpriced drill-and-practice programs of the time > 
> > > weren't real educational software, and that what children need is > 
> > > sharp tools to do stuff with. Commercial educational software is 
> still > 
> > > a vast wasteland, with a few honorable exceptions. Then I did a 
> study > 
> > > on Personal Instruments (data acquisition and analysis on PCs), and > 
> > > some other reports that touched on education. Besides starting and > 
> > > managing a software project for math for schools. And a few other 
> things. 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > I have a button that says, "Stop me before I volunteer again," but 
> it > 
> > > doesn't help. [sigh] 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > -- > 
> > > Edward Cherlin 
> > 
> > > Earth Treasury: End Poverty at a Profit 
> > 
> > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Earth_Treasury 
> > 
> > > WIRE AFRICA http//www.wireafrica.org/ <http://www.wireafrica.org/> 
> <http://www.wireafrica.org/> 
> > 
> > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/cherlin 
> > 
> > > 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > _______________________________________________ 
> > 
> > > Sugar mailing list 
> > 
> > > Sugar at lists.laptop.org <mailto:Sugar at lists.laptop.org> 
> <mailto:Sugar at lists.laptop.org <mailto:Sugar at lists.laptop.org?>> 
> > 
> > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar 
> > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- > 
> > Ryan Pavlik 
> > 
> > AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: www.abisource.com 
> <http://www.abisource.com> <http://www.abisource.com> 
> > 
> > AbiWord Community Outreach Project: 
> www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/ 
> <http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/> 
> <http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement." 
> > 
> > -- Helen Keller 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu 
> > 
> > was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were 
> > 
> > created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers." 
> > 
> > -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > 
> > Sugar mailing list 
> > 
> > Sugar at lists.laptop.org <mailto:Sugar at lists.laptop.org> 
> <mailto:Sugar at lists.laptop.org <mailto:Sugar at lists.laptop.org?>> 
> > 
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar 
> > 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
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>  
> -- Ryan Pavlik 
> AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: www.abisource.com 
> <http://www.abisource.com> 
> AbiWord Community Outreach Project: 
> www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/ 
> <http://www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/> 
>  
> "Optimism is the father that leads to achievement." 
> -- Helen Keller 
>  
> "The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu 
> was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were 
> created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers." 
> -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide 
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free 
> from AOL at *AOL.com* <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000437>.

-- 
Ryan Pavlik
AbiWord Win32 Platform Maintainer, Art Lead: www.abisource.com
AbiWord Community Outreach Project: www.cleardefinition.com/oss/abi/blog/

"Optimism is the father that leads to achievement."
 -- Helen Keller

"The folder structure in a modern Linux distribution such as Ubuntu
was largely inspired by the original UNIX foundations that were
created by men with large beards and sensible jumpers."
 -- Jono Bacon, The Ubuntu Guide