<div dir="ltr">On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 5:16 PM, T Gillett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tgillett@gmail.com" target="_blank">tgillett@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Unfortunately it appears that in recent NUC versions (Skylake), Intel have changed from using PCIe cards for the wifi module to fixed modules on the motherboard thus preventing any changes to the wifi hardware.<div><br></div><div> <a href="http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/03/review-much-improved-iris-gpu-makes-the-skylake-nuc-a-major-upgrade/" target="_blank">http://arstechnica.com/gadget<wbr>s/2016/03/review-much-improved<wbr>-iris-gpu-makes-the-skylake-<wbr>nuc-a-major-upgrade/</a></div></div></blockquote><div> <br></div><div>Tragic, I too noticed that.<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div></div><div>Interestingly, Gigabyte BRIX devices are using the Intel wifi and bluetooth modules as M.2 cards.</div><div><br></div><div> <a href="http://www.gigabyte.com.au/products/list.aspx?s=47&ck=104" target="_blank">http://www.gigabyte.com.au/p<wbr>roducts/list.aspx?s=47&ck=104</a></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div> Excellent information!<br><br></div><div>Curt Thompson's also recommended we look into the $130+ ZOTAC CI323 he's had great luck with, or more to the point higher-end ZOTAC units that accept Legit Internal WiFi modules as you describe?<br><br></div><div>(Almost anything that's not artificially capped to 12 WiFi devices, as Intel's seems to be...)<br></div><div><br>Clarif: many of our deployments now demand that WiFi be fully contained *inside* the
school server / Internet-in-a-Box unit, keeping a lid on endless
theft/configuration/breakage/loss/sustainability hassles.<br><br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra">On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 8:19 AM, T Gillett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tgillett@gmail.com" target="_blank">tgillett@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>One more thought - have you looked at the dedicated Access Points that are made by Intel to see what they are using for the wifi chipset and drivers?<br><br> <a href="http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/education/products/content-access-point.html" target="_blank">http://www.intel.com/content/w<wbr>ww/us/en/education/products/co<wbr>ntent-access-point.html</a><br><br></div>This may give you a clue as to a suitable wifi card for the NUC.<span><font color="#888888"><br><br></font></span></div><span><font color="#888888">T<br></font></span></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 8:13 AM, T Gillett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tgillett@gmail.com" target="_blank">tgillett@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Hi Adam<span><br><br>"Any other angles of attack??"<br><br></span></div>I thought of testing the NUCs with a copy of OpenWrt just to see if the wifi would behave differently.<br>This has been found to be the case with some types of router hardware (eg TP-Link) where the (closed) OEM firmware will not support large numbers of wifi connections, but the hardware works perfectly well using OpenWrt and its open source Linux wifi drivers.<br><br></div>Unfortunately it seems that while running OpenWrt on x86 is well enough supported, the Intel wifi chipsets used in the NUCs are not so well supported. (There may be a message in this. Intel probably never intended the devices to be used as serious wifi Access Points)<br><br></div>An alternative approach may be to change the wifi in the NUC for something for which there are Linux drivers available that are known to work as APs.<br><br></div>I see that Intel offer a range of wifi cards for the NUC and it may be that one of their offerings will work correctly as an AP if set up with a suitable Linux driver. <br><br></div>The wifi cards appear to be half size PCI-e cards, so an alternative may be to use a card with a different chipset, from a different supplier. <br><br></div>I realise that changing the wifi card is not an ideal solution if the NUC comes with a card already installed, but it seems that you are getting to the bottom of the barrel in terms of finding a solution. <br><br>Can you buy the NUCs without a wifi card fitted?<br><br></div>Of course adding a 'real' wifi router on the network port of the NUC would give you a good solution from a wifi perspective (particularly as you can use better antennas), albeit at the cost of having two pieces of hardware to install and support.<br><br></div>Regards<br></div>Terry<br></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 1:26 AM, Adam Holt <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:holt@laptop.org" target="_blank">holt@laptop.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span>On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 12:55 AM, Anish Mangal <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anishmg@umich.edu" target="_blank">anishmg@umich.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>FWIW, on an older 2nd gen NUC I also see max 10-12 connections on the WiFi. I dont know if I have tried the latest kernel on that, so your finding is atleast consistent with older gen NUCs.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>FYI Kernel 4.4.14 (Fedora 22's latest upon yum update) is no better:<br>12 simultaneous WiFi connections is still the maximum we're able to sustain from random OS's to NUC6i3SYH's internal WiFi (*)<br><br></div><div>Sadly the latest WiFi driver from Intel also does not help: (for 6i3's internal WiFi "Intel® Dual Band Wireless-AC 8260")<br><a href="http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking/000005511.html" target="_blank">http://www.intel.com/content/w<wbr>ww/us/en/support/network-and-i<wbr>-o/wireless-networking/0000055<wbr>11.html</a><br><a href="https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/_media/en/users/drivers/iwlwifi-8000-ucode-25.30.13.0.tgz" target="_blank">https://wireless.wiki.kernel.o<wbr>rg/_media/en/users/drivers/iwl<wbr>wifi-8000-ucode-25.30.13.0.tgz</a><br><br></div><div>(*) Curious Anomaly: Android WiFi connections made within the "first 12 WiFi connections" can hold on to their DHCP/WiFi connections, remaining active and usable as 13th and 14th connections etc, as other laptops connect, <i>until they disconnect from WiFi</i>. But when 12 laptops (or iOS) have connected to WiFi, and one of these Android WiFi connections happens to drop, it will not be able to reconnect to WiFi -- until one of the 12 laptops (or iOS) disconnects. Baffling that DHCP issues more than 12 IP simultaneous IP addresses in these exceptional cases, when Android has snuck in connecting early on.<br><br>Other OS's (Windows, Linux, Mac, iOS) however do not demonstrate Android's unusual/sneaky/resilient behavior. In any case, this Android curiosity (however tantalizing, no idea how Android's apparently able to circumvent the "max 12" limit) does not solve the larger/general problem of supporting all OS's!<br><br></div><div>Any other angles of attack??<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Beyond that number of users, one should anyway consider a router. <br></div><br></div>Off the shelf routers like 701nd support around 15 users, but with openwrt they have been reported to support upwards of 30. <br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 4:56 AM, James Cameron <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:quozl@laptop.org" target="_blank">quozl@laptop.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Doesn't sound right.<br>
<br>
What happened to stop the test?<br>
<br>
Isn't the CentOS 7.2 kernel used in your test way older than the RPi3<br>
kernel?<br>
<br>
It would appear that CentOS 7.2 released with kernel 3.10 dated 30<br>
June 2013, with minimal changes patched into it since. Perhaps it<br>
needs another fix.<br>
<br>
RPi3 kernel with Rasbian is 4.4 dated 1 November 2015.<br>
<br>
Bisect the problem broadly. Try the latest kernel.<br>
<br>
There have been many wireless driver and wireless networking changes<br>
between the two kernels. There's a possibility it may be one of them<br>
you have hit.<br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
James Cameron<br>
<a href="http://quozl.netrek.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://quozl.netrek.org/</a><br>
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