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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi, George<br>
<br>
The following from Sridhar's page appears to be relevant:<br>
<br>
<h1 dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:24pt;margin-bottom:6pt;"
id="docs-internal-guid-71d049a1-ade2-b026-2550-c959a84d7257"><span
style="font-size:24px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:bold;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">Project
vs Distribution vs Product</span></h1>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">It
is important to define the concepts of project, distribution
and product.</span></p>
<br>
<span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;"></span>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">A
</span><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">project</span><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
is an ongoing effort to develop a technical solution. It is
under constant flux and hence is not generally intended for
end-users. A </span><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">distribution</span><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
is a packaging of a version/snapshot of the project’s files,
often configured for a particular purpose.</span></p>
<br>
<span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;"></span>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">A
</span><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">product</span><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
is more comprehensive, providing properties such as ease of
use, QA and accompanying documentation. What makes a product
really stand out is integration with other parts of the
deployment organisation’s business. This can include factors
such as supply chain, technical support and the educational
programme.</span></p>
<br>
<span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;"></span>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">The
community XS is a project, open to participation/use by
anyone. Deployments are encouraged to create their own
distribution/product to better suit their needs. For OLPC
Australia, this will take the form of our </span><a
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dnhU2F6EntepVXTgN8QpkME8fZVUuPjcCoMUfAVKbcc/edit?pli=1#heading=h.60mn085jgn8e"
style="text-decoration:none;"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#1155cc;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline;">One
Network</span></a><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
product.</span></p>
<br>
<br>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"
id="docs-internal-guid-1b830053-adde-d034-7bea-fbd5cbd1f568"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">This
section outlines the architecture of the community XS.</span></p>
<h2 dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:18pt;margin-bottom:4pt;"><span
style="font-size:19px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:bold;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">Scenarios</span></h2>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">Here
are some scenarios that the community XS should be compatible
with. Non-conflicting combinations of these should also be
possible.</span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;">
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">it
hosts the network, acting as an access point itself</span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">it
hosts the network, and bridges to an external wireless
access point</span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">it
acts as a gateway to another network, such as the Internet</span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">it
participates on an existing network, without hosting core
services</span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">one
XS server serves the whole school</span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">many
XS servers participate on the same network</span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;"><span
style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">the
XS optionally provides services such as collaboration,
registration, roster groups (presence segregation), backups
and content on a modular basis</span></li>
</ol>
<br>
I do not see the distinction you make between XS and XSCE. XS-0.7
was <br>
developed by Daniel Drake as an ongoing effort started by Martin
Langhoff.<br>
The major difference is that this project was a part of OLPC and
not the <br>
community.<br>
<br>
The real question is whether the community is adopting and
continuing the XS project or starting a new one. <br>
<br>
As a continuation of the XS project, the first step could have
been to <br>
build XS-0.7 with a Fedora base. This essentially requires
performing the build <br>
process with a Fedora repository instead of CentOS. This would
have made <br>
XS-0.7 available for ARM-based platforms.<br>
<br>
Sridhar did not mention 'remix' in his description. Generally for
servers, the distinction is distribution + desktop vs distribution
+ server. <br>
<br>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;">In
the discussion of scenarios, Sridhar does not mention the most
important point of the school server architecture, the
distinction between LAN and WAN.<br>
Here is a revised description. Note: all of Sridhar's scenarios
are currently fully supported by XS-0.7.<br>
</p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><br>
<br>
</p>
<ol style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;">
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;">it
hosts the LAN network<br>
</p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;">it
may be connected to one or more wireless routers<br>
</p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;">it
acts as a gateway to another network (WAN), such as the
Internet</p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;">it
participates on an existing network (WAN) , without hosting
core services for that network<br>
</p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;">one
or more XS servers serve the whole school, dependingi on the
number of XOs deployed.<br>
</p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;">many
XS servers may participate on the same (WAN) network</p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:decimal;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;">the
XS provides services such as collaboration, registration,
roster groups (presence segregation), backups and content.
These services may be used or not at the discretion of the
deployment. </li>
</ol>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><br>
<br>
</p>
See below for specific comments.<br>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;"><br>
</p>
<br>
<br>
On 10/12/2013 12:57 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:server-devel-request@lists.laptop.org">server-devel-request@lists.laptop.org</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.295761.1381597043.1032.server-devel@lists.laptop.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Message: 2
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 12:58:28 -0400
From: George Hunt <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:georgejhunt@gmail.com"><georgejhunt@gmail.com></a>
To: xsce-devel <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:xsce-devel@googlegroups.com"><xsce-devel@googlegroups.com></a>, XS Devel
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:server-devel@lists.laptop.org"><server-devel@lists.laptop.org></a>
Subject: Re: [Server-devel] [XSCE]
Message-ID:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CADfCcpU-XQ2=wDjWRbHcrwfmJKTZs=tANGb_kiSeio6ZSNwWzw@mail.gmail.com"><CADfCcpU-XQ2=wDjWRbHcrwfmJKTZs=tANGb_kiSeio6ZSNwWzw@mail.gmail.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Tony,
I'd add to Tim's comments:
Sridhar, early in the XSCE design, made a distinction between project, and
product, which I find useful -See-
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dnhU2F6EntepVXTgN8QpkME8fZVUuPjcCoMUfAVKbcc/edit">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dnhU2F6EntepVXTgN8QpkME8fZVUuPjcCoMUfAVKbcc/edit</a>--
follow the "Product vs Distribution vs Product" link.
XS0.7 was a product, whereas XSCE is attempting to be a project. By
reconceptualizing, and restructuring the install process, now with the
higher level server description language, called "ansible", we are
attempting to position the code base to be flexible, and applicable, to new
distributions, hardware, processors, needs and requirements.</pre>
</blockquote>
I still do not understand who is the user of Ansible. It would seem
to a be a tool for use of the XSCE project, not its clients.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.295761.1381597043.1032.server-devel@lists.laptop.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
As such, XSCE is not meant to be directly usable until it is married with
specific hardware, and a set of requirements. Two examples come to mind:
1. In September, I installed an XO4 and a trimslice at two schools in
Haiti. One with gateway function via 3G modem and Internet In A Box on an
XO4, the other with IIAB function on a Trimslice, and a large storage
battery, to deal with intermittent power.</pre>
</blockquote>
I assume you used an external usb drive to store the IIAB content.
How many XOs did these school servers support?<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.295761.1381597043.1032.server-devel@lists.laptop.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
2. There is now a $100 low power quad core ARM becoming available (6
watt 2GB memory- CubeBox ) which XSCE software stack may be adapted to</pre>
</blockquote>
I think we may have to seriously explore having a school server with
an <br>
external usb hard drive and how this can be packaged to maximize
stability.<br>
The newer small form factor systems appear to support SSD internally
via <br>
mSATA. However, economical SSD storage is currently insufficient for
IIAB.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.295761.1381597043.1032.server-devel@lists.laptop.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
XSCE project moved away from Centos, partially because we wanted to run on
ARM as well as i386/x86_64.
Also, we did not want dependencies on punji, kickstart, or anaconda that
would lock us into fedora, as we looked forward towards running on
debian/ubuntu, or such.</pre>
</blockquote>
This direction I do not understand unless it is anticipated that
Fedora would not <br>
support some significant new architecture. <br>
<br>
Rebasing on Fedora was clearly necessary to support ARM.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.295761.1381597043.1032.server-devel@lists.laptop.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Yes, much of what we have done does not directly add value in the
classroom. But hopefully it positions our code base to be relevant in the
classroom for the next 10 years.
It's also true that we have not yet defined a product, or turnkey solution.
Be we have a growing cadre of programmers, with skills to do that. It
appears that Activitycentral is moving in that direction with DXS.</pre>
</blockquote>
Since XSCE-0.4 has a version number, it is hard not to call it a
product.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.295761.1381597043.1032.server-devel@lists.laptop.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
George
</pre>
</blockquote>
By now everyone is familiar with my frustration. I see some
incredibly talented people doing the impossible. However, this
talent is, in effect, re-inventing the wheel.<br>
<br>
Configuring an XO as a school server is a terrible idea. Once I saw
the Spruce Goose with an aeronautical engineer. His comment, 'Just
because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be done.'<br>
<br>
Building XS-0.7 on a Fedora base instead of CentOS should be
straightforward.<br>
Abhishek Singh at OLE Nepal did it for me in a few hours. The
biggest problem <br>
was reconfiguring the build process to use local repositories so the
build could <br>
be done independent of the internet.<br>
<br>
It is particularly frustrating when I imagine the wonderful
enhancements this community could bring to XS. The original concern
expressed by Abhishek and I was that XS-0.6 was based on an obsolete
version of Fedora. This problem was <br>
elegantly addressed by Daniel Drake in XS-0.7.<br>
<br>
I hope we can have a real dialog on these issues in SF.<br>
<br>
Tony<br>
<br>
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