I posted this earlier, but after looking into it more.. I realized it could be even more practical that I thought..<br><br>Here's some interesting looking Savonius Wind Turbine ideas: <br> <a href="http://www.re-energy.ca/t-i_windbuild-1.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.re-energy.ca/t-i_windbuild-1.shtml</a><br>
<a href="http://static2.instructables.com/id/Build-a-Savonius-Wind-Turbine-or-VAWT-to-make-elec/" target="_blank">http://static2.instructables.com/id/Build-a-Savonius-Wind-Turbine-or-VAWT-to-make-elec/</a><br>
<a href="http://static2.instructables.com/id/A-Home-Power-Plant---Wind-Power-Generator-Revised/" target="_blank">http://static2.instructables.com/id/A-Home-Power-Plant---Wind-Power-Generator-Revised/</a><br><br>Complete instructions on generating electricity based on 'wind'. And with a few 'clever' adjustments can be 20 to 30% more efficient than original designs. (such as adding more magnets, and putting them on the outer most rim of the device). Looks like one or two of these 'homemade' devices can easily charge a battery or a XO laptop.<br>
<br>Basic materials needed: <br>* wood (or stiff cardboard, or plastic)<br>* copper wire (I wonder if using insulated wiring would work?)<br>* any round bottle or container (pop bottle, steel drum, etc)<br>* low friction spinnning device (bolt with a bearing will work, or just a wooden pointed spindle)<br>
* magnets (the better the grade, the better electricity.. but I wonder if hard drive magnets would work?)<br>* some wind<br><br><br>This would be so easily to replicate , if these supplies were readily available... In Peru, how common are these ?<br>
<br>Hmmm... this looks so intriguing that I might even try some experimentation to see which materials are most efficient. Anyone else interested in some joint experimentation ? :-)<br><br>-Ixo<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Arjun Sarwal <<a href="mailto:arjunsarwal@gmail.com">arjunsarwal@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d">On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:19 PM, Joshua Seal <<a href="mailto:josh@laptop.org">josh@laptop.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> Arjun,<br>
><br>
> You right, we should explore every possible solution - otherwise we might<br>
> miss something really important. However, being that Peru has a requirement<br>
> for power generation right now, it would be good to try and focus on<br>
> solutions with a high chance of working and being scalable.<br>
><br>
<br>
</div>I completly agree Josh. We need to power laptops in Peru as soon as<br>
possible! :-)<br>
<br>
regards<br>
<font color="#888888">Arjun<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
> The personal Solar can be cheaper, 5W is $12, but I was basing all my cost<br>
> calculations on a 7.5W requirement (maybe not to charge but at least sustain<br>
> the laptops)<br>
><br>
> Nice to see the cows are willing and cheap!<br>
><br>
><br>
> Josh<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Arjun Sarwal [mailto:<a href="mailto:arjunsarwal@gmail.com">arjunsarwal@gmail.com</a>]<br>
> Sent: 08 May 2008 18:37<br>
> To: Joshua Seal<br>
> Cc: <a href="mailto:info@olpc-peru.info">info@olpc-peru.info</a>; Carla Gomez Monroy; <a href="mailto:peripherals@lists.laptop.org">peripherals@lists.laptop.org</a>;<br>
> Holden Bonwit<br>
> Subject: Re: [Peripherals] Alternitive Power for Developing Countries<br>
><br>
> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 7:38 PM, Joshua Seal <<a href="mailto:josh@laptop.org">josh@laptop.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > I've been thinking about power solutions for the XO for some time now<br>
> > and I've been following this email thread with great interest.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > I have always thought that a spinning wheel type contraction would be<br>
> > interesting to explore and it holds advantages over hand generation<br>
> > solution because you can work and generate power at the same time.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > However, when I imagined a classroom with 30+ of these machines in,<br>
> > with children pedalling away that's when I because a little suspect.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Should we really expect children to generate the power for the XO?<br>
> ><br>
><br>
> Perhaps not. However social considerations might govern this factor more<br>
> than others because parents have other things (mainly their full time job)<br>
> to take care of.<br>
> Also, a class of children charging their laptops might not be as bad as it<br>
> seems. Maybe in the evening when classes are off kids can charge their<br>
> laptops...<br>
><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Personally, I think the power requirements for the XO is too high for<br>
> > children to charge them. Yes, I'm sure something can be created that<br>
> > children could operate - but is this scalable and long term? Do we<br>
> > think that children are going to want to do this everyday throughout<br>
> > their entire education?<br>
> ><br>
><br>
> I tend to agree with you. When I earlier mentioned on this site about<br>
> avoiding human power solutions I intended to convey that the power<br>
> requirement is not easily deliverable by a human, especially a kids.<br>
><br>
> However I, by no means want to discourage anyone from trying these<br>
> ideas(human power) out because most of these ideas are untested and untried<br>
> and we should really explore them to see which one might work out.<br>
><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Regardless of if its realistic or not here are some approximate costs<br>
> > (educated guesses);<br>
> ><br>
> > * Personal Solar: $20 per XO (Variable effectiveness and difficult<br>
> > for a classroom environment)<br>
> ><br>
><br>
> I had the idea that these were slightly cheaper, perhaps $12-$15. But that<br>
> was just an offhand figure and I could no doubt be wrong.<br>
><br>
> > * Classroom Solar: $35 per XO (Assuming peak efficiency - Roof<br>
> > solar with charge controllers and power distribution)<br>
> ><br>
> > * Classroom Wind: $15 per XO (Assuming peak efficiency - Wind<br>
> > Turbine tower outside school - variable output - Wind power generates<br>
> > the cube of<br>
> > velocity)<br>
> ><br>
> > * Hand Crank: $15 per XO<br>
> ><br>
> > * Cow Power: $13.75 per XO (35A Alternator ($300) + Gearing ($150)<br>
> > + Batt ($100) = $550 for 40 XO?) (How much does a cow cost to 'fuel'?)<br>
> ><br>
><br>
> Hopefully cow wouldn't cost anything extra to fuel because they feed the cow<br>
> to do 8-10 hours of work all day in the field, hopefully within the same<br>
> energy it can spare an hour or two more for the XOs.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> > * Spinning Wheel: ???<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Feel free to modify these numbers.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > I think what is most important is to determine the sources of<br>
> > potential energy in areas that need it, then design technology to utilise<br>
> that.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Javier I think you have mentioned that both water, wind and sun are<br>
> > too variable to design a cost effective system around. Can you think<br>
> > of energy sources that are readily available in these areas that could be<br>
> utilised?<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > You don't happen to have an abundance of zinc ore in Peru do you?<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Kind regards,<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Josh<br>
> ><br>
><br>
> thanks for sharing your thoughts.<br>
><br>
> best regards<br>
> Arjun<br>
><br>
><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ==<br>
> ><br>
> > Joshua Seal<br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="mailto:josh@laptop.org">josh@laptop.org</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ________________________________<br>
> > From: <a href="mailto:peripherals-bounces@lists.laptop.org">peripherals-bounces@lists.laptop.org</a><br>
> > [mailto:<a href="mailto:peripherals-bounces@lists.laptop.org">peripherals-bounces@lists.laptop.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>
> > <a href="mailto:info@olpc-peru.info">info@olpc-peru.info</a><br>
> > Sent: 06 May 2008 18:55<br>
> > To: <a href="mailto:arjunsarwal@gmail.com">arjunsarwal@gmail.com</a><br>
> > Cc: Carla Gomez Monroy; <a href="mailto:peripherals@lists.laptop.org">peripherals@lists.laptop.org</a>; Holden Bonwit<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Subject: Re: [Peripherals] Alternitive Power for Developing Countries<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Hello Arjun et al,<br>
> ><br>
> > >* Cost of Alternators -- I agree they are expensive. Have you thought<br>
> > about taking car alternators?<br>
> ><br>
> > You need to choose those alternators that have low RPM (low<br>
> > Revolutions Per Minute).<br>
> ><br>
> > >They give 12V and usually have built in<br>
> > mechanisms for cut-off when the battery is fully charged, and also<br>
> > would be easily available.<br>
> ><br>
> > Yes, easilty available. In Peru that means that, but it doesnt mean<br>
> > that they have a low cost. The most popular car here is the Korean<br>
> > "Tico". Is everywhere, but... unlike we are... there is such demand<br>
> > that the alternator (new one) cost US$300 each one.<br>
> ><br>
> > It is not possible to think in a solution based on "second hand"<br>
> > alternators... they work.. but how we will get 250,000 used<br>
> > alternators for the 250,000 XOs that will be deployed in Peru ? We<br>
> > need to develop prototype, pilots that can be "sourced" in a secure,<br>
> stable, confident way.<br>
> > Wars have been lost due to the failure on the supplies chain.<br>
> ><br>
> > >In India I've found car alternators to cost<br>
> > ~$100. They give about 35A output.<br>
> ><br>
> > Maybe we will need to import them. But... who will finance this ? We<br>
> > can do the pilot/experiment/test/initial design. But... what then?<br>
> ><br>
> > >... I have come to realize<br>
> > that it is very difficult for a human to provide the mechanical power<br>
> > needed to charge an XO, whatever they may use - legs/hands etc. This<br>
> > was one of the reasons why we fundamentally wanted animals to drive<br>
> > our solution and not be human powered.<br>
> ><br>
> > That is because we are thinking in using ANY alternator. Normal car<br>
> > alternators (like a Toyota) need 3,000 RPM. Then you need to "pedal"<br>
> > (on the<br>
> > bike) very fast and very steady to reach those RPM that the alternator<br>
> > needs to start to generate energy. IF you use a LOW RMP alternator<br>
> > then you don't need so much mechanical movement. There are alternators<br>
> > (here in Peru) that works at very low RPM, just 200 RMP and they are<br>
> > generating huge energy, they are used for some mining equipment and they<br>
> cost around US$800 each.<br>
> > So, technically is possible to "break" the RMP barrier, but then money<br>
> > is an "impossible" wall to climb.<br>
> ><br>
> > There are many answers to this dilemma:<br>
> > a) Modify a car alternator: add more magnets, add more "cooper" coiled<br>
> > parts. Then you will need less RPM. You will need to do this with<br>
> > almost ALL the car alternators that you can find. If you get an<br>
> > alternator that is on the 600 RMP then you are VERY NEAR to what any<br>
> > human been (big or small, child, woman, man) can generate.<br>
> > b) Build your own alternator: import the magnets from China, very very<br>
> > (and<br>
> > very) cheap. Locally (at least in my country) we can add the cooper<br>
> > coils bobins. We need a good design and some testing. Add some<br>
> > circuits (very cheap too, any medium skilled tech here can build one)<br>
> > for doing the cut off, the rectification, and other electronic gadgets.<br>
> ><br>
> > More: the bike/leg combination is not usefull because you move THE<br>
> > WHOLE LEG. Too much waste. Then you transfer all that spend energy to<br>
> > a small "flywheel" that transfer (by the chain) the movement to the<br>
> > rotor (that is in the back of the bike). You need to do this because<br>
> > you need BIG torque (initial force). In the case of the "charging<br>
> > batteries" there is not need to move the weight of any person so no<br>
> > such a need torque is needed. So, IF you use a spinning wheel (that is<br>
> > what I have in mind) you move just one foot and that is good enough to<br>
> move a BIG wheel that will move the "rotor"<br>
> > on the alternator (or the pulley on the alternator). I have done the<br>
> > calculations and that "foot" movement can generate from 500 to 600 RPM<br>
> > with a very low and normal "pedaling" (treadling) rhythm. Since it is<br>
> > in the "border line" I think we would need to add some extra pulley<br>
> > system to add a little bit more RPMs.<br>
> ><br>
> > >*Rule of thumb -- Whatever you may design, remember, as a simple rule<br>
> > of thumb, that from the alternator you may use, you'd need to provide<br>
> > each XO laptop about 1.5A of current at 12V for about 2hours to charge<br>
> > the battery from empty to full.<br>
> ><br>
> > I am taking note. Question: how long can the XO work with a full<br>
> > charged battery ?<br>
> > (then we can calculate how many "alternator sets" we need for this or<br>
> > that<br>
> > school)<br>
> ><br>
> > >It would be my suggestion to plan out the<br>
> > power solution as much as in detail as possible before implementing<br>
> > it, it would save you problems that you might face later on!<br>
> ><br>
> > AMEN!!!! Base line is what we need.<br>
> ><br>
> > Javier Rodriguez<br>
> > Lima, Peru<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Arjun Sarwal wrote:<br>
> > Hi Javier, Caryl and others,<br>
> ><br>
> > A few thoughts.<br>
> ><br>
> > * Cost of Alternators -- I agree they are expensive. Have you thought<br>
> > about taking car alternators? They give 12V and usually have built in<br>
> > mechanisms for cut-off when the battery is fully charged, and also<br>
> > would be easily available. In India I've found car alternators to cost<br>
> > ~$100. They give about 35A output.<br>
> ><br>
> > * I would like to see more variations of human power being explored,<br>
> > like the one Caryl has mentioned. I think it is a very interesting<br>
> > idea. However, whatever experience I have had, I have come to realize<br>
> > that it is very difficult for a human to provide the mechanical power<br>
> > needed to charge an XO, whatever they may use - legs/hands etc. This<br>
> > was one of the reasons why we fundamentally wanted animals to drive<br>
> > our solution and not be human powered.<br>
> ><br>
> > * Bicycle - Holden Bonwit, cced here was recently working on Bicycle<br>
> > powered solution at a place near Delhi. I will fish for the link he<br>
> > sent me, but they concluded that it is difficult to get enough output<br>
> > from a single dynamo to be able charge XOs<br>
> ><br>
> > * Battery -- In terms of electrical design it'd be much better to<br>
> > charge, say a 12V car battery or something rather than directly<br>
> > charging the XOs. This would basically save us hassles of having to<br>
> > put a current limiting circuit, and also car batteries or other Lead<br>
> > Acid batteries can be charged with variable current, for example they<br>
> > can sometimes get charged much faster when higher current is<br>
> > available, but the range of current the XOs can take for charging is<br>
> > limited. But we can get to specifics about electrical design etc later<br>
> > on.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > *Rule of thumb -- Whatever you may design, remember, as a simple rule<br>
> > of thumb, that from the alternator you may use, you'd need to provide<br>
> > each XO laptop about 1.5A of current at 12V for about 2hours to charge<br>
> > the battery from empty to full.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > I hope these help in some way. Please let me know if I can provide any<br>
> > other useful information. It would be my suggestion to plan out the<br>
> > power solution as much as in detail as possible before implementing<br>
> > it, it would save you problems that you might face later on!<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > best regards<br>
> > Arjun<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Message: 2<br>
> > Date: Mon, 05 May 2008 14:05:32 -0400<br>
> > From: "<a href="mailto:info@olpc-peru.info">info@olpc-peru.info</a>" <<a href="mailto:info@olpc-peru.info">info@olpc-peru.info</a>><br>
> > Subject: Re: [Peripherals] [support-gang] Alternitive Power for<br>
> > Developing Countries<br>
> > To: Mel Chua <<a href="mailto:mel@melchua.com">mel@melchua.com</a>><br>
> > Cc: Yama Ploskonka <<a href="mailto:yama@netoso.com">yama@netoso.com</a>>, <a href="mailto:peripherals@lists.laptop.org">peripherals@lists.laptop.org</a>,<br>
> > "Community Support Volunteers -- who help respond to \"help AT<br>
> > laptop.org\"" <<a href="mailto:support-gang@lists.laptop.org">support-gang@lists.laptop.org</a>><br>
> > Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:481F4C6C.7010604@olpc-peru.info">481F4C6C.7010604@olpc-peru.info</a>><br>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br>
> ><br>
> > Hello Mel and all the people on the peripherals list,<br>
> ><br>
> > I have been discussing the issue of energy with other fellow on the OLPC.<br>
> ><br>
> > I am honest and I speak directly all the time: I think the solar<br>
> > energy is not a realistic posibilitie in Peru: there is 100% sunny<br>
> > days in the Andes JUST 6 months in a whole year. The worst moments are<br>
> > the 4 to 5 months were some villages (located over the 3,500 meters<br>
> > altitude) get 100% cloudy time, very cloudy, huge rainfall. According<br>
> > to all the investigation that I have done (I can send to anyone if you<br>
> > are<br>
> > interested) the solar devices can provide from 5% to 20% IF there is<br>
> > not a sunny day. That is a BIG problem.<br>
> ><br>
> > My best understanding, based on previous experience when I have work<br>
> > for a mining company is to build a mechanical device: human driven,<br>
> > leg driven. But not a bycecle. We have built it before but it was<br>
> > without "cost" restrictions. It is based on a spinning wheel (I have<br>
> > many here at my sight). But when I have put "cost" as a variable to<br>
> > take in account then I have got the next ideas:<br>
> ><br>
> > a) Using alternators, in Peru, is expensive. Each alternator cost<br>
> > US$300 aprox.<br>
> > b) We need to import some magnets and assembly the alternator by<br>
> > ourselves. The kids on the villages can do it as part of the<br>
> > "experience". We must provide the alternators, the copper wire, the<br>
> > circuit and components for the rectifier, and... the battery (battery<br>
> > is other hard issue... short live... expensive). Assembly this "home made"<br>
> > alternator, connecting to the spinning wheel (that can need a double<br>
> > wheel or a "pulley" chain) can be an improvement (according to the<br>
> > first results that we can get).<br>
> > c) Legs are the ones that will be used. Not in a bycecle but on a<br>
> > spinning wheel. It is totally possible generate enough energy for a<br>
> > regular laptor with the legs, it will be easier for the XOs. Providing<br>
> > energy for the XServers is a totally different issue, I don't agree<br>
> > with the use of XServers. I suggest that one of the XOs MUST behave as<br>
> > a Server (or the whole local XO network should behave as a "shared server"<br>
> > sharing processing power... but that is a bigger task).<br>
> > d) Need more energy? Put bigger magnets or "more" copper wire. Too<br>
> > heavy to move? Change design: move the copper wire around the magnets.<br>
> > Too heavy yet? Use concatenated pulleys.<br>
> > e) Cost?: import the magnets from Korea or other asian manufacturer.<br>
> ><br>
> > In this moment I don't have the time to develop this pilots (because I<br>
> > work independently, earning bread and butter for daily living, as<br>
> > anyone, and my spare time is not good enough to attack the problem in<br>
> > an efficient way). So I am passing this info to you (and I can discuss<br>
> > and help more if there is someone interested in develop this prototypes).<br>
> ><br>
> > If we don't get an asnwer for the energy problem then we will be<br>
> > delivering (we ARE delivering) XOs to the towns and villages that "look"<br>
> > poor in the eyes of the occidental culture but we are forgetting that<br>
> > in Peru the deep poverty is located in those 80,000 villages (5<br>
> > million<br>
> > people) with less than 100 families in each villages, without<br>
> > electricity, less than FIVE HUNDRED dollars as total ANNUAL income for<br>
> > the family (with the work of the father, mother and children from 6<br>
> > years old). The goverment can not reach them (they reach JUST the<br>
> > 5,000 other villages that contains the rest of the peruvian<br>
> > population, 23 million people). So IF we deliver XOs just to the towns<br>
> > that HAVE electricity then we are keeping a "STATUS QUO" that have<br>
> > kept the same since 1821 (our "independence day" from the old spaniards<br>
> conquerors).<br>
> > We need to be part of the solution and not be part of the problem.<br>
> ><br>
> > We will develop this "energy" gadget (this or other one!) and then ALL<br>
> > the responsible people will be more than happy to bring the XOs to<br>
> > those villages. Then we, all, be very happy. Until then the "One<br>
> > Laptop Per Children" will not be a dream.<br>
> ><br>
> > Best regards,<br>
> ><br>
> > Javier Rodriguez<br>
> > Lima, Peru<br>
> ><br>
> > (just for the record: my other two nightmares are: internet connection<br>
> > without any VSAT (or paying to the telephone company)... building<br>
> > something like UUCP or a UUCP revival... and content, content, content).<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Mel Chua wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Moving discussion to "peripherals" list (please reply to<br>
> > <a href="mailto:peripherals@lists.laptop.org">peripherals@lists.laptop.org</a> - subscription info at<br>
> > <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals%29." target="_blank">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals).</a>..<br>
> ><br>
> > Chris Carrick, one of the staff members for the grassroots office in<br>
> > Chicago this summer (our resident mechanical engineer & green guy),<br>
> > will be working on getting many "ideas with prototypes built and<br>
> > tested" as well as "simple instructions for replicating them made<br>
> > available to empower the folks to generate their own power." (More of<br>
> > a "here's how to design your *own* power solutions!" in the end, even<br>
> > more than a "copy ours!" resource.) So your wish will be granted,<br>
> > Caryl. :)<br>
> ><br>
> > -Mel<br>
> ><br>
> > Caryl Bigenho wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Yes, I thought of that too. But who would ride the bike? Where would<br>
> > they go? Would it be an exercise bike? Do these folks really need more<br>
> > exercise? If they, or someone in the family, will be riding around<br>
> > anyway, it would work. But if they are walking most places (as the<br>
> > folks in the Andes tend to do), the bicycle is not a luxury they have<br>
> > at hand. Still in some places it would probably be a great idea.<br>
> ><br>
> > I would love to see lots of ideas with prototypes built and tested and<br>
> > simple instructions for replicating them made available to empower the<br>
> > folks to generate their own power. Call it "Power Empowerment!"<br>
> ><br>
> > > From: <a href="mailto:akonstam@sbcglobal.net">akonstam@sbcglobal.net</a><br>
> > > To: <a href="mailto:support-gang@lists.laptop.org">support-gang@lists.laptop.org</a><br>
> > > Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 14:40:55 -0500 > Subject: Re: [support-gang]<br>
> > Alternitive Power for Developing Countries > > On Sun, 2008-05-04 at<br>
> > 08:26 -0700, Caryl Bigenho wrote:<br>
> > > > Hi...<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > Yes, I've seen that weza treadle. The price is way to high for ><br>
> > > developing countries...it costs more than the XO! I'm looking for a<br>
> > > > charger that can be made inexpensively from something that may be<br>
> > > > readily available. It might even be possible to retrofit one of<br>
> > the > > sewing machines so it could sew and charge at the same time.<br>
> > That way > > Mom could recharge Junior's XO while she was making<br>
> > clothes or > > whatever!<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > I wil take a look a the other list and move this idea there later<br>
> > this > > morning.<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > Caryl<br>
> > > I am sure someone has thought of this but a bicycle would make an<br>
> > ideal > charging device.<br>
> > > --<br>
> > ><br>
> > ======================================================================<br>
> > = > Romance, like alcohol, should be enjoyed, but should not be<br>
> > allowed to > become necessary. -- Edgar Friedenberg ><br>
> > ======================================================================<br>
> > = > Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail:<br>
> > <a href="mailto:akonstam@sbcglobal.net">akonstam@sbcglobal.net</a> > ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > > support-gang mailing list<br>
> > > <a href="mailto:support-gang@lists.laptop.org">support-gang@lists.laptop.org</a><br>
> > > <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/support-gang" target="_blank">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/support-gang</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> > --<br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > support-gang mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:support-gang@lists.laptop.org">support-gang@lists.laptop.org</a><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/support-gang" target="_blank">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/support-gang</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Peripherals mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Peripherals@lists.laptop.org">Peripherals@lists.laptop.org</a><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals" target="_blank">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ------------------------------<br>
> ><br>
> > Message: 3<br>
> > Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 14:35:57 -0700<br>
> > From: Caryl Bigenho <<a href="mailto:cbigenho@hotmail.com">cbigenho@hotmail.com</a>><br>
> > Subject: [Peripherals] Alternitive Power for Developing Countries<br>
> > To: <<a href="mailto:info@olpc-peru.info">info@olpc-peru.info</a>>, <<a href="mailto:peripherals@lists.laptop.org">peripherals@lists.laptop.org</a>><br>
> > Message-ID: <BLU108-W40798E83494CA5CAB3D780CCD70@phx.gbl><br>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Hello Javier Rodriguez and, all the other folks on the peripherals<br>
> > list,<br>
> ><br>
> > After seeing the creative things Arjun Sarwal is doing with cow-power<br>
> > in India, I started thinking of other possibilities. I remembered my<br>
> > grandmother's old treadle sewing machine and how excited she was to<br>
> > have it electrified. Later, I saw many being used 35 years ago in<br>
> > regions in the Yucatan where there was no electricity.<br>
> ><br>
> > Here is a link to a picture of what they look like. It is the one on<br>
> > the left.<br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/Trade%2DLiterature/Sewing%2DM" target="_blank">http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/Trade%2DLiterature/Sewing%2DM</a><br>
> > achines/<br>
> ><br>
> > Many of these machines still exist. i see them at estate auctions<br>
> > every summer in Montana. There must be thousands throughout the world.<br>
> > I have twice tried bidding on just the treadle mechanism of one on<br>
> > ebay. I lost out on the bidding for both, but have hopes of finding<br>
> > one in Montana this summer.<br>
> ><br>
> > When I get one, I intend to try to set it up as a combination<br>
> > desk/power source to run an XO. If it works and doesn't cost too much<br>
> > to set up, it might be something that could be replicated all over the<br>
> > world where these old machines still exist...some probably still being<br>
> > used without electricity.<br>
> ><br>
> > Javier, have you seen any of these machines in rural Peru? Are they<br>
> > still being used to sew? Would there be a need to try to design it to<br>
> > continue to be used as a sewing machine but to generate power at the same<br>
> time?<br>
> ><br>
> > It might also be possible to manufacture a similar mechanism, at a<br>
> > modest cost. But, the idea of recycling the old ones has a lot of<br>
> > appeal. I was also wondering if an old automobile generator could be<br>
> > adapted to work with it. Perhaps it would require too much torque to work.<br>
> ><br>
> > It may be just a crazy idea, but if cow-power works, maybe this will<br>
> > too. If and when I do this project, I will probably need some advice from<br>
> you folks.<br>
> > Any suggestions for starters?<br>
> ><br>
> > Caryl<br>
> ><br>
> > BTW, Could AJ's Cow-power generator be adapted to run on Llama power?<br>
> > How about donkey power? Goat power?<br>
> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was<br>
> > scrubbed...<br>
> > URL:<br>
> > <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/peripherals/attachments/20080505/98e" target="_blank">http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/peripherals/attachments/20080505/98e</a><br>
> > 94ce8/attachment-0001.htm<br>
> ><br>
> > ------------------------------<br>
> ><br>
> > Message: 4<br>
> > Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 23:30:06 +0000<br>
> > From: "Alfonso de la Guarda" <<a href="mailto:alfonsodg@gmail.com">alfonsodg@gmail.com</a>><br>
> > Subject: Re: [Peripherals] Alternitive Power for Developing Countries<br>
> > To: "Caryl Bigenho" <<a href="mailto:cbigenho@hotmail.com">cbigenho@hotmail.com</a>><br>
> > Cc: <a href="mailto:peripherals@lists.laptop.org">peripherals@lists.laptop.org</a><br>
> > Message-ID:<br>
> > <<a href="mailto:ed60564a0805051630t5deb641ap825b2b17c65495c8@mail.gmail.com">ed60564a0805051630t5deb641ap825b2b17c65495c8@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
> ><br>
> > Hello,<br>
> ><br>
> > In the COS (<a href="http://www.cos-la.org" target="_blank">www.cos-la.org</a>), we are working some months ago in some<br>
> > options for that, specially with a portable solar panel trying to<br>
> > reduce their cost (about 60 dollars each). The device -commercially<br>
> > available as cell<br>
> > charger- is really small and can charge the XO without any problems.<br>
> > In a field test in Junin and Arahuay (Per?) the panels works great, in<br>
> > fact, in the recent event of FLISOL in Huancayo (Junin-Peru) for the<br>
> > OLPC project, we test the solution (commercial) between 3400 mts and 4500<br>
> mts (Ticlio).<br>
> > Antonio Ramirez, Carlos Reinoso and who writes now are working in our<br>
> > breaks on this task (reduce the cost for about 25 dollars each).<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > 2008/5/5 Caryl Bigenho <<a href="mailto:cbigenho@hotmail.com">cbigenho@hotmail.com</a>>:<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Hello Javier Rodriguez and, all the other folks on the peripherals<br>
> > list,<br>
> ><br>
> > After seeing the creative things Arjun Sarwal is doing with cow-power<br>
> > in India, I started thinking of other possibilities. I remembered my<br>
> > grandmother's old treadle sewing machine and how excited she was to<br>
> > have it electrified. Later, I saw many being used 35 years ago in<br>
> > regions in the Yucatan where there was no electricity.<br>
> ><br>
> > Here is a link to a picture of what they look like. It is the one on<br>
> > the left.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/Trade%2DLiterature/Sewing%2DM" target="_blank">http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/Trade%2DLiterature/Sewing%2DM</a><br>
> > achines/<br>
> ><br>
> > Many of these machines still exist. i see them at estate auctions<br>
> > every summer in Montana. There must be thousands throughout the world.<br>
> > I have twice tried bidding on just the treadle mechanism of one on<br>
> > ebay. I lost out on the bidding for both, but have hopes of finding<br>
> > one in Montana this summer.<br>
> ><br>
> > When I get one, I intend to try to set it up as a combination<br>
> > desk/power source to run an XO. If it works and doesn't cost too much<br>
> > to set up, it might be something that could be replicated all over the<br>
> > world where these old machines still exist...some probably still being<br>
> > used without electricity.<br>
> ><br>
> > Javier, have you seen any of these machines in rural Peru? Are they<br>
> > still being used to sew? Would there be a need to try to design it to<br>
> > continue to be used as a sewing machine but to generate power at the same<br>
> time?<br>
> ><br>
> > It might also be possible to manufacture a similar mechanism, at a<br>
> > modest cost. But, the idea of recycling the old ones has a lot of<br>
> > appeal. I was also wondering if an old automobile generator could be<br>
> > adapted to work with it. Perhaps it would require too much torque to work.<br>
> ><br>
> > It may be just a crazy idea, but if cow-power works, maybe this will too.<br>
> > If and when I do this project, I will probably need some advice from<br>
> > you folks. Any suggestions for starters?<br>
> ><br>
> > Caryl<br>
> ><br>
> > BTW, Could AJ's Cow-power generator be adapted to run on Llama power?<br>
> > How about donkey power? Goat power?<br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Peripherals mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Peripherals@lists.laptop.org">Peripherals@lists.laptop.org</a><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals" target="_blank">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > --<br>
> ><br>
> > --------------------------------<br>
> > Alfonso de la Guarda<br>
> > COS<br>
> > <a href="http://www.cos-la.org" target="_blank">www.cos-la.org</a><br>
> > <a href="http://www.delaguarda.info" target="_blank">www.delaguarda.info</a><br>
> > Telef. 97550914<br>
> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was<br>
> > scrubbed...<br>
> > URL:<br>
> > <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/peripherals/attachments/20080505/0c1" target="_blank">http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/peripherals/attachments/20080505/0c1</a><br>
> > bf02f/attachment.htm<br>
> ><br>
> > ------------------------------<br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Peripherals mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Peripherals@lists.laptop.org">Peripherals@lists.laptop.org</a><br>
> > <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals" target="_blank">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > End of Peripherals Digest, Vol 6, Issue 3<br>
> > *****************************************<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Arjun Sarwal<br>
> <a href="http://dev.laptop.org/%7Earjs" target="_blank">http://dev.laptop.org/~arjs</a><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div>--<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">Arjun Sarwal<br>
<a href="http://dev.laptop.org/%7Earjs" target="_blank">http://dev.laptop.org/~arjs</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals" target="_blank">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/peripherals</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>