[Openec] Nonfree EC issues pop up again - Lemote YeeLoong netbook (was: Re: Closing Yeelong cover fails to shut off display)

Fri Jan 22 17:03:48 EST 2010

Hi all.

Sorrey for the late response.

On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 6:05 AM, Daniel Clark <dclark at pobox.com> wrote:
> FYI, thought subscribers to this list might find it interesting that
> this issue is popping up again, with the Lemote YeeLoong netbook, a
> portable computer that unlike the XO has free wifi (in addition to boot
> firmware), but still has nonfree EC.
>
> The FSF may be able to get anyone interested and with the skills a free
> (as in beer) Lemote Yeeloong to hack on OpenEC for that computer.
>
> Lemote  has also been very good at providing us with low-level doc when
> they can, so if someone knows what documents would be useful for such an
> effort there is a good chance we would be able to get them.
>
> I believe much of the hardware on the YeeLoong (a mipsel machine based
> on the loongson2f processor) is surprisingly similar to the XO -
> Dilinger would be able to comment more cogently on that.
>
> Cheers,

Frieder fierleman, was working hard on the OpenEC. i copy him on this mail.

> Daniel JB Clark   | Sys Admin, Free Software Foundation
> pobox.com/~dclark | http://www.fsf.org/about/staff#danny
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Closing Yeelong cover fails to shut off display
> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 05:32:11 -0500
> From: Daniel Clark <dclark at pobox.com>
> To: Hongbing Hu <huhb-h23VmSynlr/QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
> CC: samy boutayeb <s.boutayeb-GANU6spQydw at public.gmane.org>,  Richard
> Stallman <rms at gnu.org>, jordan.crouse at amd.com, ward at fsf.org,
> dilinger at queued.net,  wmb at firmworks.com, vladimir.serbinenko at gmail.com,
>  rms / fsf sysadmin / fsf volunteers / lemote <lemote at gnu.org>
> Newsgroups: gmane.linux.distributions.gnewsense.devel
> References: <E1NOja5-00084X-Kc at fencepost.gnu.org>
> <4B374694.3050100 at lemote.com>   <1261914721.10972.138.camel at localhost>
> <4B37584E.2060503 at lemote.com>
>
> Hongbing Hu wrote:
>> samy boutayeb 写道:
>>> Le dimanche 27 décembre 2009 à 19:35 +0800, Hongbing Hu a écrit :
>>>
>>>> PS:
>>>> Get the ec version
>>>>
>>>> # cat /proc/cmdline
>>>>
>>>> output likely: EC_VER=PQ1D26
>>>
>>> I have PQ1D12.
>>> Where could we get the latests files?
>>> Could you please reminder the upgrade procedure?
>>
>> Ok, attachment inclueds all the things
>>
>> Please be careful!
>
> (+=cc people I quote / may be interested in EC issues in general)
>
> I should have heeded Hongbing Hu's "Please be careful!" statement more
> closely.
>
> In both I and Hongbing's enthusiasm to try to be helpful, we overlooked
> a very important fact: the EC code for the Lemote YeeLoong netbook is
> not free software, should be considered an unmodifiable part of the
> hardware by us, and instructions or binaries that aid in its
> modification to newer versions of nonfree code should not be distributed.
>
> Since this list is hosted on Free Software Foundation servers, I will be
> removing the attachment from our mailman archives, since we of course
> are not in the business of hosting nonfree software.
>
> This situation, and the solution of just never modifying the EC code *on
> a specific machine* once the user has it, is obviously suboptimal.
>
> (Reporting problems to Lemote so they can fix them or get them fixed *in
> future versions*, as one might do with other hardware problems that the
> user could not normally fix, as rms did, is fine; I just parsed rms' as
> always very carefully crafted wording incorrectly.)
>
> This issue also came up at my former employer, One Laptop Per Child.
>
> Mitch Bradley writes [1] about how nonfree EC firmware makes writing
> other free software correctly difficult. Jordan Crouse writes [2] about
> the OpenEC [3] project, which needs hackers; if you are interested, you
> should sign up for its mailing list [4], and add yourself to the watch
> list for the OLPC wiki and associated discussion pages mentioned in this
> email.
>
> Besides the above references, more information about what the EC is and
> what it does are at [5] and [6] on the laptop.org wiki.
>
> [1] Interview With Mitch Bradley – Firmware – OLPC
> http://howsoftwareisbuilt.com/2008/03/27/interview-with-mitch-bradley-firmware-olpc/
>
> The elements of this system that are not open source, including that
> mesh firmware [not a problem on the yeeloong - the wifi is free -DC],
> the firmware that runs the touchpad, and the firmware that runs the
> embedded controller that does the very lowest level of power management,
> those are not open sourced, and they are some of our biggest headaches.
>
> We have had endless fights trying to solve difficult problems in those
> areas where we can’t see the code.
>
> So I would say that one of our biggest development challenges has
> actually been dealing with the bits of firmware that were closed source,
> because we just didn’t have enough clout to force them to be open.
>
> [2] Jordan Crouse: [coreboot] Fw: Re: coreboot and embedded controllers,
>    for example OLPC and its OpenEC code
> http://www.coreboot.org/pipermail/coreboot/2008-June/035820.html
>
> There is currently no active development done on OpenEC I'm afraid.
>
> I jumped in to provide a framework which would allow for a GPL'ed
> firmware for the Embedded controler in the XO of the
> One-Laptop-per-Child project.
>
> But it turned out I was the only one contributing code.
> And having no access to up to date schematics and only a very
> terse data sheet of the controller (and still nobody joining)
> I felt I could not complete within the time-scale that
> would matter for the OLPC project.
>
> So for now OpenEC is not being worked on. But I think the project
> (while in its early stages) is now adequately positioned as a
> starting point for an Embedded Controler firmware.
>
> [3] OLPC Wiki: OpenEC
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OpenEC
>
> OpenEC is an effort for an open implementation of the firmware on the
> EC. It currently (Sept. 2008) is in an early stage and only
> outputs/accepts data via a serial adapter [[1]] and a terminal program.
>
> [4] Openec -- Discussion of open ec development
> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/openec
>
> [5] OLPC Wiki: Power management
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Power_Management
>
> (Search for "embedded controller")
>
> [6] OLPC Wiki: Ec specification
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ec_specification
>
> --
> Daniel JB Clark   | Sys Admin, Free Software Foundation
> pobox.com/~dclark | http://www.fsf.org/about/staff#danny
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