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Michel; (sorry to change your thread but felt my comments differs than the general consensus... ) <BR>
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Thanks for your input about the language. <BR>
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I think their FAQ is well worth reviewing by anyone seeking a deeper understanding of the language situation. Kreyòl definitely has a greater socio-political context than most languages. <A href="http://creoletrans.com/pages/about_creole.html">http://creoletrans.com/pages/about_creole.html</A><BR>
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On another topic <BR>
Reading your post and others on this forum - it brought me back to my school years in PaP. My personal experience is that education does not have to be computer based. Often western culture feels that they know best for another culture. <BR>
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I am having some reservation about every child (or even 1Million) in Haiti needs a laptop. Time might have change but it might be worth considering because after all a love for nature and a passion for learning is not develop based on technology alone.<BR>
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In any country where power is limited - a book is more likely to have more mileage in my humble opinion.<BR>
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I am all for getting a coordinated donation - maybe to a specific school or for modernizing the government administration.<BR>
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I understand this might be a dissident voice in this forum...<BR>
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In any event - you might be interested in this publisher if you are in need to publish more books like this:<BR>
<A href="http://www.lightmessages.com/lmjom/">http://www.lightmessages.com/lmjom/</A><BR>
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> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 00:36:38 -0500<BR>> From: degraff@MIT.EDU<BR>> To: carminablaise@gmail.com<BR>> CC: Timothy@mail.laptop.org; Chriswlow@aol.com; olpc-haiti@lists.laptop.org; Support@pedal.laptop.org; haiti2010@media.MIT.EDU; christinewlow@gmail.com; teefal@waveplace.com; support-gang@laptop.org; meta.sj@gmail.com; jrigdon@researchonline.net<BR>> Subject: Re: [Olpc-Haiti] our Haiti translation site's now in English+ French + on Facebook too!<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Carmina et al,<BR>> <BR>> Thank you for sharing your own experience with us vis-à-vis Kreyòl<BR>> writing.<BR>> <BR>> When it comes to the education of Kreyòl speaking children, my own<BR>> belief is that a (substantially) imperfect Kreyòl translation will do<BR>> more harm than good. In my view, the XO, like any computer, is a<BR>> _tool_, not an end. The quality of the materials that are installed on<BR>> the XO is key to its success as a tool. And we certainly do not want our<BR>> children to be using an instrument that uses an imperfect version of<BR>> their language---a language that has long been stigmatized out of "class<BR>> bias," to use John Rigdon's term. And the socio-political message would<BR>> be problematic as well: it would be as if Kreyòl-speaking children do<BR>> not "deserve" the same quality of materials as children speaking<BR>> English, French, Spanish, etc.<BR>> <BR>> One unfortunate fact is that the social history of Kreyòl, steeped in<BR>> (neo-)colonialism and slavery, is very different from that of English,<BR>> French, Spanish, and so on. And the predicament of Kreyòl speakers who<BR>> cannot write Kreyòl is one consequence of that history, and we do need<BR>> to take this history into account in planning educational projects for<BR>> Haiti. But Kreyòl also has its strengths (e.g., in its uniform<BR>> spelling system) which can be an asset for technology design---for<BR>> example, text-to-speech software like "Speak" on the XO.<BR>> <BR>> Another good news is that there do exist professional Kreyòl<BR>> translators. For example:<BR>> <BR>> http://creoletrans.com/<BR>> <BR>> I hope this helps,<BR>> <BR>> -michel.<BR>> _____________________________________________________________________<BR>> MIT Linguistics & Philosophy 77 Massachusetts Ave Cambridge MA 02139<BR>> degraff@MIT.EDU http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/people/faculty/degraff<BR>> _____________________________________________________________________<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----- Message from carminablaise@gmail.com ---------<BR>> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 23:47:02 -0500<BR>> From: Carmina Blaise <carminablaise@gmail.com><BR>> Reply-To: Carmina Blaise <carminablaise@gmail.com><BR>> Subject: Re: [Olpc-Haiti] our Haiti translation site's now in English+<BR>> French + on Facebook too!<BR>> To: Michel DeGraff <degraff@mit.edu><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > Michel, John,<BR>> ><BR>> > This conversation rings so true to me being one of the Haitians who speak<BR>> > but not write Kreyol.<BR>> > It also explains the reticence or what I perceived as a lack of enthusiasm<BR>> > from my peers when trying to recruit volunteer translators.<BR>> ><BR>> > It's not because my Haitian brothers and sisters don't care, but because<BR>> > like me, I suppose that they are intimidated by the task at hand<BR>> > and maybe even embarrassed to admit that they can not write Kreyol.<BR>> ><BR>> > Your idea of paying "professional" Kreyol translators is an interesting one<BR>> > with many positive ramifications<BR>> ><BR>> > But the problem as I see it is where do we find "professional" Kreyol<BR>> > translators?<BR>> ><BR>> > Is an imperfect Kreyol translation worse than no translation?<BR>> ><BR>> > Looking forward to hearing your suggestions<BR>> ><BR>> > Thanks<BR>> > Carmina<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > &*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*<BR>> > Do you speak Creole?<BR>> > Haiti needs your help!<BR>> > Can you Help?<BR>> > www.raisehaitiup.com<BR>> > &*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Michel DeGraff <degraff@mit.edu> wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> >><BR>> >> John,<BR>> >><BR>> >> I agree with your comment re:<BR>> >><BR>> >> > It has been my experience that most Haitian adults in the diaspora do<BR>> >> > not read Kreyol well, although they speak it because they were<BR>> >> > essentially educated in French before<BR>> >> > leaving Haiti.<BR>> >><BR>> >> And they often write it even less well. And this is not their fault: as<BR>> >> you point out, most educated Haitian adults above certain age were never<BR>> >> trained to write in Kreyòl. These issues need to be kept in mind as<BR>> >> "volunteers" from the diaspora are being enlisted to translate<BR>> >> interface, software and courseware that are meant to Kreyòl-speaking<BR>> >> children.<BR>> >><BR>> >> This is a point I've stressed many times to OLPC folks, but it has often<BR>> >> fallen on (apparently) deaf ears: translation should be taken as a<BR>> >> serious professional activity on a par with the sort of activities that<BR>> >> OLPC employees and consultants (in Haiti and elsewhere) routinely get<BR>> >> paid for. I think we have to closely monitor the quality of Kreyòl<BR>> >> translation, especially when it comes to languages like Haitian Creole<BR>> >> that, for too long, have been dismissed as "broken languages" by too<BR>> >> many (though not all) French-speaking Haitians. Of course, this is<BR>> >> related to the "class bias" that you mention in your email---a class<BR>> >> bias with deeply entrenched historical and socio-economic roots.<BR>> >><BR>> >> Kreyòl pale, kreyòl konprann...<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> -michel.<BR>> >> _____________________________________________________________________<BR>> >> MIT Linguistics & Philosophy 77 Massachusetts Ave Cambridge MA 02139<BR>> >> degraff@MIT.EDU http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/people/faculty/degraff<BR>> >> _____________________________________________________________________<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> ----- Message from jrigdon@researchonline.net ---------<BR>> >> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:08:28 -0500<BR>> >> From: John Rigdon <jrigdon@researchonline.net><BR>> >> Reply-To: John Rigdon <jrigdon@researchonline.net><BR>> >> Subject: Re: [Olpc-Haiti] our Haiti translation site's now in English+<BR>> >> French + on Facebook too!<BR>> >> To: Michel DeGraff <degraff@mit.edu>, Samuel Klein<BR>> >> <meta.sj@gmail.com><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> > Thank you for the clarification Michel.<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > It has been my experience that most Haitian adults in the diaspora do<BR>> >> > not read Kreyol well, although they speak it because they were<BR>> >> > essentially educated in French before leaving Haiti.<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > It is only those under the age of about 25 who both read and speak<BR>> >> Kreyol.<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > It has been my experience in visiting Haiti over the last few years<BR>> >> > that the majority of the schools are still being taught in French,<BR>> >> > and there is a strong "class" bias to try to learn French and<BR>> >> > demonstrate profiency. I hope I'm not being offensive here. I<BR>> >> > really don't mean to be.<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > Happily the young children under about age 12 are really proud of<BR>> >> > their ability to read Kreyol and overwhelmingly they want to learn<BR>> >> > English and Spanish. I think generally these younger children<BR>> >> > understand Spanish and English better than they do French.<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > When I first visited Haiti about 8 years ago, I identified 55 books<BR>> >> > in Kreyol at that time. I think the universe of titles may be close<BR>> >> > to 400 now - maybe double that if you include pamphlets, tracts, and<BR>> >> > brochures.<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> > John Rigdon<BR>> >> > www.ngohaiti.com<BR>> >> ><BR>> >> ><BR>> >> ><BR>> >> ><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> ----- End message from jrigdon@researchonline.net -----<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> _______________________________________________<BR>> >> Olpc-haiti mailing list<BR>> >> Olpc-haiti@lists.laptop.org<BR>> >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-haiti<BR>> >><BR>> ><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----- End message from carminablaise@gmail.com -----<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> Olpc-haiti mailing list<BR>> Olpc-haiti@lists.laptop.org<BR>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-haiti<BR><BR> </body>
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