Michel, John,<br><br>This conversation rings so true to me being one of the Haitians who speak but not write Kreyol.<br>It also explains the reticence or what I perceived as a lack of enthusiasm from my peers when trying to recruit volunteer translators.<br>
<br>It's not because my Haitian brothers and sisters don't care, but because like me, I suppose that they are intimidated by the task at hand<br>and maybe even embarrassed to admit that they can not write Kreyol.<br>
<br>Your idea of paying "professional" Kreyol translators is an interesting one with many positive ramifications<br><br>But the problem as I see it is where do we find "professional" Kreyol translators? <br>
<br>Is an imperfect Kreyol translation worse than no translation?<br><br>Looking forward to hearing your suggestions <br><br>Thanks<br>Carmina<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br> <br clear="all">&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*<br>
Do you speak Creole?<br>Haiti needs your help!<br>Can you Help?<br><a href="http://www.raisehaitiup.com">www.raisehaitiup.com</a><br>&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Michel DeGraff <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:degraff@mit.edu">degraff@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
John,<br>
<br>
I agree with your comment re:<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> It has been my experience that most Haitian adults in the diaspora do<br>
> not read Kreyol well, although they speak it because they were<br>
> essentially educated in French before<br>
> leaving Haiti.<br>
<br>
</div>And they often write it even less well. And this is not their fault: as<br>
you point out, most educated Haitian adults above certain age were never<br>
trained to write in Kreyōl. These issues need to be kept in mind as<br>
"volunteers" from the diaspora are being enlisted to translate<br>
interface, software and courseware that are meant to Kreyōl-speaking<br>
children.<br>
<br>
This is a point I've stressed many times to OLPC folks, but it has often<br>
fallen on (apparently) deaf ears: translation should be taken as a<br>
serious professional activity on a par with the sort of activities that<br>
OLPC employees and consultants (in Haiti and elsewhere) routinely get<br>
paid for. I think we have to closely monitor the quality of Kreyōl<br>
translation, especially when it comes to languages like Haitian Creole<br>
that, for too long, have been dismissed as "broken languages" by too<br>
many (though not all) French-speaking Haitians. Of course, this is<br>
related to the "class bias" that you mention in your email---a class<br>
bias with deeply entrenched historical and socio-economic roots.<br>
<br>
Kreyōl pale, kreyōl konprann...<br>
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
-michel.<br>
_____________________________________________________________________<br>
MIT Linguistics & Philosophy 77 Massachusetts Ave Cambridge MA 02139<br>
<a href="mailto:degraff@MIT.EDU">degraff@MIT.EDU</a> <a href="http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/people/faculty/degraff" target="_blank">http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/people/faculty/degraff</a><br>
_____________________________________________________________________<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>----- Message from <a href="mailto:jrigdon@researchonline.net">jrigdon@researchonline.net</a> ---------<br>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:08:28 -0500<br>
From: John Rigdon <<a href="mailto:jrigdon@researchonline.net">jrigdon@researchonline.net</a>><br>
Reply-To: John Rigdon <<a href="mailto:jrigdon@researchonline.net">jrigdon@researchonline.net</a>><br>
<div class="im">Subject: Re: [Olpc-Haiti] our Haiti translation site's now in English+<br>
French + on Facebook too!<br>
</div> To: Michel DeGraff <<a href="mailto:degraff@mit.edu">degraff@mit.edu</a>>, Samuel Klein<br>
<<a href="http://meta.sj" target="_blank">meta.sj</a>@<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> Thank you for the clarification Michel.<br>
><br>
> It has been my experience that most Haitian adults in the diaspora do<br>
> not read Kreyol well, although they speak it because they were<br>
> essentially educated in French before leaving Haiti.<br>
><br>
> It is only those under the age of about 25 who both read and speak Kreyol.<br>
><br>
> It has been my experience in visiting Haiti over the last few years<br>
> that the majority of the schools are still being taught in French,<br>
> and there is a strong "class" bias to try to learn French and<br>
> demonstrate profiency. I hope I'm not being offensive here. I<br>
> really don't mean to be.<br>
><br>
> Happily the young children under about age 12 are really proud of<br>
> their ability to read Kreyol and overwhelmingly they want to learn<br>
> English and Spanish. I think generally these younger children<br>
> understand Spanish and English better than they do French.<br>
><br>
> When I first visited Haiti about 8 years ago, I identified 55 books<br>
> in Kreyol at that time. I think the universe of titles may be close<br>
> to 400 now - maybe double that if you include pamphlets, tracts, and<br>
> brochures.<br>
><br>
> John Rigdon<br>
> <a href="http://www.ngohaiti.com" target="_blank">www.ngohaiti.com</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>----- End message from <a href="mailto:jrigdon@researchonline.net">jrigdon@researchonline.net</a> -----<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
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