<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>To:</div><div>OLPC Localization, FYI</div><div>Javier Sola, KhmerOS, FYI and for the Khmer localization queries</div><div>Nancie Severs, OLPC project manager, Vietnam</div><div>Marina, OLPC project worker, Vietnam</div><div>Adam Holt, OLPC ...</div><div>Sayamindu Dasgupta, OLPC Localization admin</div><div><br></div>Hi everyone :)<div><br><div><div>On 10/03/2010, at 2:13 PM, Nancie Severs wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">Dear Clytie and Sayamindu,<br>Thank you for your thoughtful and helpful emails.<br><br>Yes. you are correct. The XOs for both micro-deployments in Vietnam, the Vung Vieng Village project that I implemented in Ha Long Bay and Marina's project in HCMC obtained gently used XO 1's from the Contributors Program. <br></blockquote><div><br></div>I like "gently used". No biting and scratching, huh? :D<br><blockquote type="cite">
<br>Marina and I are both grassroots volunteers. We have each invested quite a bit of our own time and money to try and bring OLPC to children in Vietnam. OLPC and Sugar focus on the larger deployments especially those supported with government funds in various recipient countries. Information and support for volunteers trying to spread OLPC through micro-deployments is not well organized or easily available. The OLPC volunteer community does its best at sharing information and mentoring when active or new volunteers request information. The communication structure is far from ideal but it is what we have to work with at this time. <br></blockquote><div><br></div>What communication avenues do you currently have? Could you circulate a brief cheat-sheet on "Using the XO in your country"? This could include step-by-step instructions on setting up the XO to use a certain language, links to more resources, and how to get help (e.g. encourage people to write to the OLPC localization list, or possibly a separate list we could form for that purpose).<br><blockquote type="cite">
<br>Marina and I both felt that the micro-deployment model would at least benefit some children in Vietnam where prior to October, 2009 there was no OLPC presence at all. I hope that the VVV project that I started will be sustainable and be able to spread and grow. Marina is doing great things with the children she is working with in HCMC despite the obstacles she regularly confronts. <br></blockquote><div><br></div>I'm really delighted OLPC is doing anything in Vietnam. As I said, it makes me feel all my effort has been worthwhile. :)<br><blockquote type="cite">
<br>I can't speak for Marina, but I do not come from a technical background. And I cannot spend lots and lots of time on the computer and Internet. None of the VVV team members had any experience with XOs before I brought the first 12 to Vietnam. Many of the children and adults using the XOs have never seen a computer before and have never been on the Internet. I have a few team members who can use the Internet but none of them have any open source software programming knowledge. I apologize that because of my limited technology background, I require very simple and clear instructions on how to do things. And yet, if I can do it and understand it, then it is likely that our new to the XO and computing recipients in Vietnam can learn also!<br></blockquote><div><br></div>This is a useful reminder to project staff and localizers. Unless you live in a third-world setting yourself, it is easy to forget that countries like Vietnam are mostly composed of people who have never used a computer. Many have never even seen one. The vast majority of actual computer users are young and inexperienced (often too shy to ask for help). Internet connections are unreliable or nonexistent. Unless you happen to live in a big city and work for someone who has money, Vietnam is not Tech Central.</div><div><br></div><div>I call us "low-resource communities". All the Asian languages bar Chinese, Japanese and Korean, all the African languages, many South American languages, and all the minority-group or tribal languages face much higher barriers to participation and access than other languages do. We are often single-person teams. We have no support structure. Many participants don't have enough experience to jump through the hoops that localizing and distributing requires. So we need tools (like Pootle [1], where Sugar is translated) and communication strategies to keep us afloat, and to encourage other people to join in.<br><blockquote type="cite">
<br>Together Marina and I will try to get the Vietnamese language packs installed on the XOs in both of these deployments. <br></blockquote><div><br></div>Yay! :D<br><blockquote type="cite"><br>1. Using your advice, I have succeeded in switching the language to Vietnamese and installing the Vietnamese keyboard option on a recently donated XO that I have in the US. Marina has also been successful with this in HCMC.<br></blockquote><div><br></div>Well done. Sayamindu's instructions need to go on the Cheat Sheet.<br><blockquote type="cite">
<br>2. Can you please explain how to install the language pack? I tried downloading the link below by clicking on it from the XO while connected to the Internet but that did not work. It ran and ran and never opened. I tried downloading it to my older Dell PC which runs Windows XP. I don't know which program to use to open it, I chose Firefox but did not know what to do with it once opened. <br>
<br>Please help! Simple instructions, 1. 2. 3 etc. appreciated. I know how to use a flash drive if I need to copy something from a PC and install it on the XO from there. I have already spent several hours trying to figure this out. "Running the language pack" does not seem simple to me.<br></blockquote><div><br></div>How big is the original file? If you're trying to download a large file in Vietnam, the odds are it won't arrive, especially if you're downloading it from a server outside Vietnam. We had this problem with <a href="http://OpenOffice.org">OpenOffice.org</a>, to the point where we had to site a server inside Vietnam. (We did better with CDs and DVDs, in distributing OOo to third-world countries.)</div><div><br></div><div>If you're downloading to your XO in a country with reliable Net connections, I'm unsure as to why the download would not proceed. Sayamindu?</div><div><br></div><div>Once you do download the language-pack, there's no point opening it on any computer but the XO. It's a system file specifically for the XO, so opening it on any other computer would be like getting a bear to try on your new shirt.</div><div><br></div><div>Transfer the file to the XO (using your thumb drive, or email it as an attachment to your account on the XO). Save it to disk. Then, "running the language pack" sounds like you just need to double-click on that file. Language "packs" tend to be self-installing, to simplify things for the user. You should get a message saying it's running, and that it has completed.<br><blockquote type="cite">
<br>3. I will be sharing my knowledge with an upcoming deployment in Cambodia too. Is there a language pack for Cambodia we can use as well.</blockquote><div><br></div>Sayamindu? I notice that Khmer (the language of Cambodia) has only minimal stats on the OLPC Pootle, but that's mostly due to etoys being untranslated. Glucose, Fructose and OLPC Content are about half done. I don't know how recently anyone has updated those translations. Is any Khmer translator currently reading the OLPC Localization list? Please respond, if so.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite">Do you have someone who can translate a newly developed Activity into the Khmer language?</blockquote><div><br></div>Like Vietnamese, Khmer is severely under-represented in localization. However, as noted at the top of this email, we are now also talking to Javier Sola of KhmerOS. Javier has pretty much single-handedly introduced and sustained Khmer as a software localization language. Javier, after you take your bow ;) , do you have anyone who would be interested in localizing for OLPC? It's a great project, aimed straight at the kids we know need it most. Someone young, who enjoys games, would be ideal. The language should ideally be that which the children use in daily life, as well as introducing them to common computing terms.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite">Clytie, when you are feeling up to it, would you like to work on translating an exciting new Activity into Vietnamese if I can get permission from the software developers for us to do it? <br></blockquote><div><br></div>Absolutely. If this is an activity for the XO, Sayamindu, how should the developer go about getting it onto the Pootle server? (This will ensure all available languages get access to it.) Part of OLPC, IIRC, is encouraging community developers to contribute their own ideas. (If at any point you don't hear back from me, that means I'm too sick again. I'll get back to you when I can.)<br><blockquote type="cite">
<br>Thank you for helping! I appreciate it so much!<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thankyou for all the time, effort and money you have evidently put into the Vung Vieng Village project [2]. I look at the pictures of those kids' faces, and I feel like I'm making a difference. :)</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-family: Helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; ">from Clytie </span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica"><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-family: Helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; ">Vietnamese Free Software Translation Team</span></font></div><div><br></div></div></span></span></div><div>[1] <a href="http://translate.sugarlabs.org/">http://translate.sugarlabs.org/</a></div><div><br></div><div>[2] <a href="http://olpc.vn/">http://olpc.vn/</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Previous emails in this thread, for background:</div><div><br></div><div>(3), quoting (2)</div><blockquote type="cite"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Clytie Siddall <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:clytie@riverland.net.au">clytie@riverland.net.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto; ">To: Sayamindu Dasgupta, OLPC Localization<br>
Cc: Nancie Severs, OLPC Vietnam Project Manager<br>
<br>
Sayamindu, thanks for your prompt and ever-helpful reply. :)<br>
<br>
On 05/03/2010, at 12:25 AM, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi Clytie,<br>
> I'm really sorry about this. I can see two ways in which this may have happened.<br>
><br>
> 1. The machines have been obtained from the American G1G1 set, or the<br>
> contributor programme set. This means that the locale in the firmware<br>
> level is set to en_US.UTF-8. Normally, for other deployments, machines<br>
> are customized in the factory for the region they are being sent to<br>
> (there are a number of flags/variables in the firmware which needs to<br>
> be set for the right locale and keyboard settings). Most of the<br>
> documentation are for deployments like these, so I guess the right<br>
> information was not found :-). To fix this, one needs to start the<br>
> control panel in Sugar and choose the correct language<br>
><br>
> 2. The machines do not have the translations installed. This is pretty<br>
> easy to workaround - you need to install a language pack. That is as<br>
> simple as running<br>
> <a href="http://people.sugarlabs.org/%7Esayamindu/langpacks/8.2/vi_lang_pack_v2.sh" target="_blank">http://people.sugarlabs.org/~sayamindu/langpacks/8.2/vi_lang_pack_v2.sh</a><br>
><br>
> All that said, I think we need to make this easier, and I have started<br>
> to code features in Sugar which will make this easier and somewhat<br>
> automated (think of Firefox language packs).<br>
<br>
Meanwhile, how about we put together a PDF or text file (and put it up online, and publicize it among projects, so they can print it) explaining that translations and language-input are available, and how to enable them if they're not enabled by default? The file could be titled, "Enable Your Language", and placed somewhere obvious on the default-install XO.<br>
<br>
It's frustrating that a small gap in communication, like this, can prevent kids accessing our work. :(<br>
><br>
> In these situation, I would ask all deployment teams, whether big or<br>
> small, whether "official" or "non-official" to file bugs if they need<br>
> any feature, or find something which they think is not right :-)<br>
<br>
Nancie, please note. You are _encouraged_ to complain! :D<br>
<br>
Sayamindu, is there an established line of communication between deployment teams and OLPC localization? Finding the OLPC Vietnam blog posts by accident, I've already encountered one project worker who didn't know the XO could input in Vietnamese (I'm not even sure her XOs are displaying Vietnamese: I've just queried that), one project manager (Nancie) who didn't know a Vietnamese localization existed, and today (once input was enabled) a distinct issue with inputting one accented character (I'll post on this once I have confirmation from the project worker).<br>
<br>
Deployment teams need information on how to access localizations, and they need to know they can ask us for help. We need the user feedback, as well.<br>
<br>
What is the best channel for this communication?<br>
<br>
Thanks again for your help. :)<br>
<br>
Clytie<br>
<br>
Vietnamese Free-Software Translation Team<br>
><br>
><br></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div>(1)</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-right: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto; ">
> On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Clytie Siddall <<a href="mailto:clytie@riverland.net.au">clytie@riverland.net.au</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Hi everyone :)<br>
>><br>
>> I've been corresponding with some of the staff of OLPC Vietnam. They put in a lot of effort, and I'm grateful for what they do to help kids learn.<br>
>><br>
>> However, I've had some odd responses from these contacts. First, an OLPC project teacher in Saigon told me she had no idea the XO could input or display Vietnamese (see my previous post: "Language input on XO"). Now I hear from an OLPC project manager in the North:<br>
>><br>
>>> I had no idea these translations existed. There is definitely a communications gap between Sugarlabs and the OLPC volunteer community, especially when the volunteers are from a non-technical background like I am.<br>
>><br>
>> "these translations" are the Vietnamese translations of Sugar etc., the very ones I have spent so many hours creating.<br>
>><br>
>> WTF?<br>
>><br>
>> Localizations should be implemented before deployment of the XOs, or at the very least, project staff should have an instruction sheet showing how to enable and use existing localizations.<br>
>><br>
>> I hate to say it, but how much of our work isn't getting used out there?<br>
>><br>
>> And what can we do about it?<br>
>><br>
>> from Clytie<br>
>><br>
>> Vietnamese Free Software Translation Team<br><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#144FAE"><br></font></font></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>