[Localization] Fwd: Translations

Sun Feb 21 00:10:08 EST 2016

Just an fyi to localization at lists.laptop.org subscribers:

Several mails came through today, but did not reach the
localization at lists.laptop.org archive -- a couple are below and Nick
Doiron's at @
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2016-February/051412.html

For the full thread, please see Tony Anderson's "Translations" topic
starting at
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2016-February/thread.html#51401

From: Caryl Bigenho <caryl at laptop.org>
Date: Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: Translations
To: Sora Edwards-Thro <sora at unleashkids.org>, Adam Holt <holt at laptop.org>
Cc: Tony Anderson <tony_anderson at usa.net>, Tim Moody <tim at timmoody.com>,
Nick Nicholas Doiron <ndoiron at mapmeld.com>, Shameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu>,
Sugar-Labs <sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org>, OLPC Localization list <
localization at lists.laptop.org>, Walter Bender <walter at sugarlabs.org>, SLOBs
<slobs at lists.sugarlabs.org>

Hi Folks

Here are some thoughts on Internationalization and Localization...

1) The most important consideration is what the local people really want…
not what we think they want or think they should want. Maybe they are happy
with English. On the other hand, maybe they would prefer their own local
language (or dialect). Don't assume anything. Don't ask just one person.
Ask enough people to get a genuine consensus.

2) Using students to provide localization is an excellent educational
activity. However, it needs to be overseen by an "expert" (maybe their
teacher) to insure it is both accurate and appropriate before submission to
Pootle.

3) The Spanish of Mexico is slightly different from the Spanish of Peru
and/or the Spanish of Argentina (etc., etc,, etc). Using students for
localization could be helpful here and, I'm sure for other languages.

4) Again, for Spanish… why not look to our largest Sugar deployment,
Uruguay, for enlisting students to help? One of the SLOBs (José Miguel
García) is Uruguayan as is super-star teacher Rosamel Ramirez.

5) Applying to GSOC for help in any aspect with this work seems like a "no
brainer" but the deadline for applications for 2016 was yesterday! [image:
Emoji]

Caryl
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2016 14:44:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Translations
From: sora at unleashkids.org
To: holt at laptop.org
CC: tony_anderson at usa.net; tim at timmoody.com; ndoiron at mapmeld.com;
caryl at laptop.org; sverma at sfsu.edu; sugar-devel at lists.sugarlabs.org;
localization at lists.laptop.org; walter at sugarlabs.org;
slobs at lists.sugarlabs.org

The success of the first translation will depend on how established /
knowledgeable the local community is. Reviewing the first round of Haitian
Creole translations, which I think were done by volunteers, you notice some
obvious problems, like inconsistent terms. I've personally seen students
and teachers become confused by these issues when using the computer. They
keep using it anyway, but it definitely affects the user experience. Now,
hopefully the attitude of "this is the wrong way to say it" will inspire
the next round of volunteers to do a better translation - but that's a big
assumption to make.

I think it's important to remember that in many of these places, language
ideology is something communities are working through. All the research
supports literacy / learning in the mother-tongue language, but in many
places the languages kids speak at home are seen as inferior to the ones
they learn in school - not just because the one they learn in school is
more widely-spoken, but because of myths that the language spoken at home
is not "advanced" enough to study something like science / math / tech.

So, basically, if the first translation is not adequate, there may not be a
second translation. People may decide "This language is not adequate for
using the computer" instead "Our translation is not adequate; let's make it
better."'

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 7:51 AM, Adam Holt <holt at laptop.org> wrote:

Excellent food for thought Tony!

+Sora, Tim, Nick, Caryl to see if they have ideas/suggestions below?
On Feb 20, 2016 3:35 AM, "Tony Anderson" <tony_anderson at usa.net> wrote:

As I understand the issue: SugarLabs has some funds available to support
translation of Sugar. At the SLOBs meeting, it was proposed that
SugarLabs recruit a 'translation manager', a possibly paid position. One
question is the job description for this role.

I would like to review the translation process:

Translation has two separate parts: internationalization(I18n) and
localization (L10n).

The Sugar-Devel team is responsible for I18n (preparing the framework to
support localization) and the community is responsible for L10n - providing
translations (by default, from English) to other languages.

The immediate focus is on using Pootle as the I18n framework with
translators providing the localization.

Let's divide the languages into three groups:

    - English (the base language)

    - Mediums of instruction (languages used at deployments as a common
language where more than one language is spoken)

    - Local language (languages used by students at home)

When a new Sugar release is made, the Pootle English master files should be
a part of the release. Sugar development should ensure that Pootle files
are available for all software in the release.

Sugar may want to provide localization for one or more mediums of
instruction (e.g. Spanish, French, Arabic). Since this would imply that
files for these localizations are available at release, SugarLabs should
decide which, if any, of these languages are to be supported.

Deployments (or deployment sponsors) may need localization of Sugar for
specific local languages (e.g. Kinyarwanda, Haitian Creole,
Sotho, Xhosa). I believe these localizations are most likely to come from
Sugar/XO deployments where the language is used. Some would
seem to be a given - Cambodian.

However, strange things happen. For example, Rwanda is one of the largest
and most active deployments. However, there is no Kinyarwanda localization.
The reason is probably that in Rwanda the OLPC laptops are part of a path
to English. They are introduced at the fourth grade, the first year when
the required medium of instruction is English. While Kinyarwanda is a
subject in grades 4-6, the priority is using the XOs to facilitate learning
in English, Mathematics, and Science.

I believe that the Pootle files are distributed and installed with the
released image. This should mean that XO users who know English and the
native language could provide the localization. Once it is complete, the
files can be installed on the XOs at the deployment and the localization
would be available at the deployment. Ideally, localization would be done
by the students as a learning activity. For example, in Rwanda,
localization to Kinyarwanda would help students a lot in learning English.
Sameer Verma has provided an excellent tutorial on how to do localization
which could be included in the Sugar image.

So, the translation manager would be responsible to identify deployments
which use specific local languages and work with them to organize 'L10n'
days for new releases. The translation manager should then interface with
Pootle to submit the localization files for review and acceptance by Pootle.

Sugar development could review Sugar (Python) activities to see if they
support Pootle and attempt, eg. through GSOC, to get activities upgraded to
implement Pootle and to include a base set of English Pootle files.

Perhaps OLPC France could be tasked to provide French localization as part
of the release process. For Spanish, perhaps Sebastian Silva (Peru) or Plan
Ceibal could accept responsibility for Spanish.

Meanwhile, being on the other side of the world, I have not made progress
on getting a committee to help put their two cents in on this. Clearly,
this scenario must be reviewed for Floss Manuals, Sugarizer, and other
SugarLabs products which don't fit in this one. Also, how to provide
localization of IIAB-2 content is, at least, a formidable question.

Tony

-- 
Unsung Heroes of OLPC, interviewed live @ http://unleashkids.org !
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