[Localization] slightly long and detailed proposal for documentation-translation workflow

Tue Oct 16 14:05:35 EDT 2007

Good points.  The OLPC is designed around collaboration.  The model really
works well where every child in a class has his/her own laptop, uses it in
and out of school, and lives in close enough proximity to other class
members to make the Mesh work.  In class one kid discovers how to do
something and teaches the other kids (and teachers as well).

In an address at Harvard Law, Negroponte said something like: "People ask me
who is going to teach the teachers to teach the children how to use the XOs
--- and I wonder what planet are they on? ..."

A child who gets one through G1G1 in isolation will not be able to fully
benefit from collaboration and thus, along with parent/tutor, would
definately benefit from user documentation in lieu of help from others in
class.  Likewise, the Carlos Slims approach of putting them in Mexican
libraries.

If G1G1 goes big-time in November, you can sure bet that there will be "OLPC
for Dummies" books, etc. by Christmas.

On 10/15/07, Todd Kelsey <tekelsey at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am amazed and inspired by all the wonderful projects and activities that
> have arisen from the laptop project -- and though I was skeptical at first,
> I have also come to appreciate the constructivist approach to education; I
> didn't "get it" until I came to appreciate the notion of allowing children
> to come to "aha" moments on their own. The fact that children do fine
> without manuals at the present level of interaction is a testament to the
> design of the computer and the philosophy behind it. As generation xo grows
> older, I think they will want to get deeper into the systems, and as they
> do, I think they will want more information, and I'd like to help make that
> freely available.
>
> I think a user manual or documentation will be more helpful for adult
> learners who will end up participating in the laptop community, and who
> would find it helpful to have something to refer to. Perhaps users could
> learn many things simply by exploring, and yet they might appreciate having
> something to turn to. Other people may not have personal possession of a
> laptop, but would be interested in learning how they could support the
> project. Some people who order the laptops through www.xogiving.org will
> get frustrated with the laptop if they have no resources to turn to, and I'd
> like to help them have fun.
>
> I think the idea of  encouraging children to help each other learn is
> wonderful;  I also appreciate the principle of inclusiveness, and I think
> that one way to be inclusive is to address various learning styles.
>
> On 10/15/07, Steve Fullerton <fullerton.steve at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ed and all,
> >
> > I fully appreciate the detail.  However, IMHO I think that there is some
> > re-thinking required re: the traditional "user" documentation.  The core  of
> > the OLPC (literally one laptop per child; the model does not work as well if
> > there is not possession of a laptop for each child) is that of
> > collaboration.
> >
> > One child learning something and then teaching his/her classmates. OLPC
> > machines are not meant to be used in isolation.  You could actually make a
> > credible argument that user manuals are bad for the project.
> >
> > The highly intuitive design of Sugar and the experience of the pilots
> > bears this out.  The children seem to do just great without manuals,
> > discovery is enhanced, and many of the constructionist ideals are realized.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > On 10/15/07, Ed Trager < ed.trager at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, Michael,
> > >
> > > Just a few comments for consideration by everyone:
> > >
> > > > ...
> > > > Doc writing conventions:
> > > >
> > > > Some linguistic research has been done on "simplified English" as a
> > > > subset of English to use for low-level learners, and I think that it
> > >
> > > > might be a good place to look for ways to simplify the source_docs.
> > > > But just thinking intuitively, I have cooked up the following
> > > > suggestions in order to generate discussion:
> > > >
> > > >     * Pronouns.
> > > >           o Use the first-person singular pronoun "I" to represent
> > > the
> > > > author of the docs,
> > > >           o the second-person singular pronoun "you" to represent
> > > the
> > > > reader of the docs, and
> > > >           o the first-person plural pronoun "we" to represent the
> > > OLPC project.
> > > >
> > > >           o Examples. "We have designed a screen that switches to
> > > > black-and-white to conserve energy. I will explain how to switch
> > > your
> > > > screen to black-and-white. First, you press the X button on your
> > > > keyboard...." Because we want the docs to be easily translated and
> > > > easily understood, the tone should be personal, using "I" for the
> > > > voice of the writer. This will be easier for amateur translators to
> > > > translate and easier for younger readers to understand. This will
> > > also
> > > > help the writer avoid the passive construction, which is very
> > > > difficult for some non-native English speakers to understand.
> > >
> > > I agree completely that the English passive construction should be
> > > avoided at all times.
> > >
> > > I mostly agree with your suggestion on use of pronouns.  Use of "I"
> > > and "we" are fine.
> > >
> > > REGARDING THE PRONOUN "YOU" IN ENGLISH:
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > However, as a native English speaker, I find the use of the pronoun
> > > "you" in the imperative mood often quite jarring.
> > >
> > > Imperative sentences in which the "you" is absent are understood by
> > > native speakers of English to convey a softer, less imperative tone.
> > > Such sentences are considered more polite. Compare:
> > >
> > > (A) "First you press the X button on the keyboard."
> > >
> > > ... versus:
> > >
> > > (B) "First, press the X button on the keyboard."
> > >
> > > One or two instances of "you" in imperatives or directions in spoken
> > > or written English may not seem too bad, but after a series of them,
> > > it becomes irritating.
> > >
> > > So while I have no objection to simple English which will be easily
> > > understood by younger learners of the language, we must also be sure
> > > that we do not proscribe an incorrect idea regarding the usage of the
> > > pronoun "you" in imperative sentences in English.
> > >
> > > In short, it is *not* OK to use "you" repeatedly in a series of
> > > imperatives or directions (such as instructions for using a laptop).
> > > The absence of the pronoun "you" is preferred when giving directions
> > > in English.
> > >
> > > REGARDING POSSESSIVE PRONOUNS:
> > > -----------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Look again at the sentances Michael used for his example:
> > >
> > > > I will explain how to switch your screen to black-and-white.
> > > > First, you press the X button on your keyboard...."
> > >
> > > English speakers make frequent use of possessive pronouns, as is the
> > > case here with : "your screen" , "your keyboard" .
> > >
> > > But in many other languages (perhaps most other languages?) we would
> > > not use possessive pronouns here at all.  All of these English
> > > "your"s, if translated quite directly into foreign languages, results
> > > in very annoying and unnatural sounding texts in my experience.
> > >
> > > So I would advise we try to fix the English from the start by avoiding
> > > unecessary invocations of possessive pronouns, especially "your":
> > >
> > >       I will explain how to switch the screen to black-and-white.
> > >       First, press the X button on the keyboard...."
> > >
> > > I basically agree with the rest of Michael's suggestions, so that's
> > > all the comments I have.
> > >
> > > -- Ed Trager
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Devel mailing list
> > > Devel at lists.laptop.org
> > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> >
> > Steve
> > ____________________________
> > Steven C. Fullerton
> > email: fullerton.steve at gmail.com
> > cell/voice mail: 619.339.9116
> > ____________________________
> > _______________________________________________
> > Devel mailing list
> > Devel at lists.laptop.org
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Todd Kelsey
> 630.808.6444

-- 
Regards,

Steve
____________________________
Steven C. Fullerton
email: fullerton.steve at gmail.com
cell/voice mail: 619.339.9116
____________________________
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