<div>Dear Colleagues</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have not been a very active contributor to this discussion ... but have one issue that gives me great concern. Simply put, it is that most people want to learn, and the reason they want to learn is because the learning is going to have some value. Young children learn ... arguable it is part of their survival system ... and educators try to guide young people so that they will learn things that are going to be useful in a more complicated adult society.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>When I look at the problem of poverty ... the 2 billion that live on not very much ... it is apparent to me that there is a massive problem. What is the problem? It is a productivity problem in a very physical economy that is not going to be much impacted by information flowing through the OLPC initiative UNLESS in parallel with the information flows there are some action flows and work to fix the productivity issues, whatever they are.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>My conclusion has been for a long time now that the best USE of the OLPC initiative would be to get information from these poor communities so that we can set about holding the world's leadership accountable for the mess that has been created by a legal and political system that is dysfunctional for pretty much all of the informal sector in the world ... a sector that serves probably well over half the world's population. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>As I am often told by my friends the best solutions are when everyone ends up being happy ... the use of OLPC infrastructure to flow information from the community to an accountability system (Community Accountancy) does not preclude having the infrastructure also used for facilitating education, and all sorts of community information activities. I will argue, however, that ignoring the dysfunctionality issues and not having the information to address accountability is a formula for short term comfort and ultimate disaster.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Sincerely</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Peter Burgess <br>____________<br>Peter Burgess<br>The Transparency and Accountability Network: Tr-Ac-Net in New York <br><a href="http://www.tr-ac-net.org">www.tr-ac-net.org</a><br>Community Accountancy <br>Integrated Malaria Management Consortium (IMMC)<br>
917 432 1191 or 212 772 6918 <a href="mailto:peterbnyc@gmail.com">peterbnyc@gmail.com</a> <br>//////////////////////////////////////////</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 12:59 AM, Edward Cherlin <<a href="mailto:echerlin@gmail.com">echerlin@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<p>On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Seth Woodworth <<a href="mailto:seth%40isforinsects.com" target="_blank">seth@isforinsects.com</a>> wrote:<br>> Ed, please forward this message back to any of the lists that I am not a<br>
> member of if you see fit.<br><br>Done. I added a few. For the benefit of everyone who hasn't seen the<br>earlier parts of this and the related discussions, there are some<br>links below. We have been discussing in several different threads how<br>
to take the One Laptop Per Child program to the next level.<br><br>The way existing curricula fit together makes sense to historians, but<br>not to children. We have to tear the curriculum apart and rebuild it<br>from first principles, working out the relationships and viable<br>
sequences of the fundamental ideas and how to represent them for<br>students of different ages, and then putting everything back together:<br>curriculum, lesson plans of a very new kind, interactive "textbooks",<br>
and especially teacher training. Then we test it all in the classroom<br>and do it again, and again, until it starts to cohere, and we can<br>leave chunks in place for a time while we work on the puzzling bits.<br><br>> Pam,<br>
><br>> I like your metaphor of an empty plate. The XO is a great mechanism, with<br>> incredible tools, discoverable information, and many other things, but it<br>> would be best if it were full of mental 'food' as well. Why is there so<br>
> little? How are we to get content? How is this to be done?<br>><br>> This isn't a question that only one person can answer. This is a question<br>> that needs to be answered by a group, ideally as large as a group as<br>
> possible.<br><br>I maintain that this is a large research program that could absorb all<br>of the energies available from schools of education, subject matter<br>experts, the teaching profession, children, and parents for the<br>
foreseeable future. We are talking about the underpinnings of the<br>entire intellectual and cultural heritage of humankind. We are talking<br>about the nature of knowledge and ignorance, of truth, of belief, of<br>reality, and of ethics, all intimately intertwined.<br>
<br>>I have been on a work flow, explaining all of the various steps<br>> required to get content on the XO. Either pre-existing content, or newly<br>> created content, there are more steps involved in a 'bundle's creation than<br>
> merely packaging.<br>><br>> The complete workflow involves licensing issues, cleaning up and<br>> reformatting, and of course complete translation and localization. But more<br>> importantly a complete workflow would involve the structures for volunteers<br>
> to do any given task, or a team of volunteers that processes a certain type<br>> of request as they happen. For instance, a larger translation team that is<br>> notified when a new content bundle is added to the queue.<br>
><br>> But volunteers need to understand a task before they can volunteer for it,<br>> and they must have some sort of structure to get tasks and upload finished<br>> material. This entire interface can be created on OLPC's wiki, and it has<br>
> been started. But I am only one person and I would love to have help<br>> finishing this structure. Or volunteers to test this structure, or<br>> materials to test this structure with.<br>><br>> If anyone is interested in helping make it easier to contribute to OLPC<br>
> please see <a href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Content_workflow" target="_blank">http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Content_workflow</a> and let's create<br>> something. Questions comments or concerns? Please mail <a href="mailto:seth%40laptop.org" target="_blank">seth@laptop.org</a><br>
<br>There has been a related discussion under the subjects<br><br>[IAEP] Lesson plans needed<br><a href="http://lists.lo-res.org/pipermail/its.an.education.project/2008-July/001180.html" target="_blank">http://lists.lo-res.org/pipermail/its.an.education.project/2008-July/001180.html</a><br>
<br>What is a Lesson Plan<br><a href="http://lists.lo-res.org/pipermail/its.an.education.project/2008-July/thread.html#1195" target="_blank">http://lists.lo-res.org/pipermail/its.an.education.project/2008-July/thread.html#1195</a><br>
<br>where among other things Alan Kay described the workflow for creating<br>viable Etoys projects for teaching, and we got links to a substantial<br>body of previous work.<br><br>> All the best,<br>> Seth Woodworth<br>
><br>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 3:21 AM, Edward Cherlin <<a href="mailto:echerlin%40gmail.com" target="_blank">echerlin@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> FYI.<br>>><br>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
>> From: Pamela McLean <<a href="mailto:pam54321%40googlemail.com" target="_blank">pam54321@googlemail.com</a>><br>>> Date: Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 8:01 AM<br>>> Subject: OLPC - Ethiopia Implementation Report - Relevance in Nigeria.<br>
>> To: Edward Cherlin <<a href="mailto:echerlin%40gmail.com" target="_blank">echerlin@gmail.com</a>><br>>> Cc: <a href="mailto:learningfromeachother%40yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">learningfromeachother@yahoogroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:mendenyo%40yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">mendenyo@yahoogroups.com</a>,<br>
>> <a href="mailto:yunus_discussion%40googlegroups.com" target="_blank">yunus_discussion@googlegroups.com</a>, tav <<a href="mailto:asktav%40gmail.com" target="_blank">asktav@gmail.com</a>>,<br>>> <a href="mailto:peakofi.thompson%40gmail.com" target="_blank">peakofi.thompson@gmail.com</a>, Andrius Kulikauskas <<a href="mailto:ms%40ms.lt" target="_blank">ms@ms.lt</a>>,<br>
>> <a href="mailto:asmitchell%40aol.com" target="_blank">asmitchell@aol.com</a>, Alexis Sumsion <<a href="mailto:runningincircles14%40yahoo.com" target="_blank">runningincircles14@yahoo.com</a>><br>>><br>
>><br>>> Ed<br>>><br>>> Thanks for you reference to the OLPC trials in Ethiopia and<br>>> and the challenge of a rote-learning based culture. Ethiopia<br>>> Implementation Report, September - December 2007<br>
>> <a href="http://www.eduvision.ch/en/meta/documents/ethiopiareport_080227a-mh.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.eduvision.ch/en/meta/documents/ethiopiareport_080227a-mh.pdf</a><br>>> (I have put some extracts at the end of my email for reference)<br>
>><br>>> This is a very useful report. As I read it I found myself thinking -<br>>> I recognise what they are saying - it could have been written for<br>>> Nigeria.<br>>><br>>> I have written a few observations to support my statement that the<br>
>> Ethiopian report seems equally applicable in Nigeria, where there is<br>>> also rote learning, and a very formal hierarchical social structure.<br>>> (People bow in different ways to different people, all kinds of<br>
>> variations from a nod of the head to lying flat on the ground,<br>>> depending on the status of the people involved. A young person passing<br>>> an older one without offering the correct greeting will be called<br>
>> back. It is not a culture where you normally question your elders.)<br>>><br>>> One of the things I have learned through Teachers Talking (an<br>>> introduction to ICT for teachers in rural schools) is that the<br>
>> attitude to questioning in Nigeria is very different to the UK. One of<br>>> the problems I find myself facing when I present Teachers Talking (TT)<br>>> is the challenge of getting participants to ask questions. It is even<br>
>> difficult to get them to generate questions for specific purposes -<br>>> i.e. where there is no suggestion that anyone is showing ignorance.<br>>> For instance there is one activity in the "No Computer Computer<br>
>> Course" part of TT where the participants need to generate ten Yes/No<br>>> questions which are appropriate for the children they teach. When I<br>>> first started to do this activity I was completely bewildered as to<br>
>> why it seemed so difficult to get sets of age-and-culture-appropriate<br>>> closed questions.<br>>><br>>> I have now started to include TT sessions that specifically relate to<br>>> asking questions. I also try to make a point of thanking people when<br>
>> they ask a question, and encouraging all participants to notice how<br>>> the question has added value to the session for all of us. I have<br>>> started to include a session on questioning and the difference between<br>
>> open and closed questions. I have found adults intrigued to discover<br>>> the six key "Who? What? Where? Why? When? How?" questions - whicg is<br>>> something that is done at primary level in the UK. In TT now we even<br>
>> have an "energiser" where we practice closed questions by playing the<br>>> childhood game of choosing one person to give answers and then all<br>>> trying to trick the person into answering "Yes" or "No".<br>
>><br>>> Another example comes from when I was teaching a group of young people<br>>> who are, by local standards, computer literate. They are also helpers<br>>> at a children's computer club, where they tend to do the kind of rote<br>
>> learning described in the Ethiopian report. John Dada had asked me to<br>>> help them see other options for their work with the children. I<br>>> suggested we might get the children to collect information in a<br>
>> structured way, help them to put in into the computers, and then see<br>>> what they could find out. Initially I found myself bewildered by the<br>>> young people's difficulty in taking this idea forward. Then I realised<br>
>> that they had learned to input specific spreadsheets and databases,<br>>> but they had not really come across any genuine uses. They had learned<br>>> about "computers" but they had not learned about "information<br>
>> handling".<br>>><br>>> It took me several days to realise how my assumptions about their<br>>> level of computer literacy were too strongly based in my own<br>>> information-rich culture. I struggled with the problem, trying to see<br>
>> why the trainees and I were not "connecting" on various issues.<br>>> Fantsuam Foundation colleagues Kazanka Comfort and Bala Bidi listened<br>>> to me patiently in the evenings as I tried to analyse what was going<br>
>> wrong.<br>>><br>>> Then one evening, as Comfort and I were in the kitchen, and she was<br>>> crouching by the kerosene stove where our food was cooking, she picked<br>>> up a plate, pretended to look at it carefully and started talking to<br>
>> me about it. We were both hungry and looking forward to eating, and as<br>>> she watched over the food, in the light of the hurricane lamp, she<br>>> described the plate to me .. that it was called a plate... that she<br>
>> had bought it at the market.. that she was very happy with this<br>>> plate...she managed to go on and on, earnestly explaining how it<br>>> looked - its shape and the pattern of red and green peppers painted on<br>
>> it .. how wonderful it was to have a plate...<br>>><br>>> We were both smiling at how long she could keep sharing all her<br>>> knowledge about the plate. She had solved my problem about the<br>
>> trainees and the computers! Of course the plate was useless to us<br>>> until there was food on it - that was obvious. But it was not so<br>>> obvious to the trainees that a computer was useless until it had<br>
>> useful information in it. They had seen computers. (They had even<br>>> seen computers decorated with examples of spreadsheets and databases.)<br>>> But they had no experience of people who were hungry for information<br>
>> coming to use computers. To all intents and purposes the computers<br>>> they knew were "empty computers" - as useless as the plate before the<br>>> meal was ready!<br>>><br>>> Together, Comfort and I had come to understand the culture gap in this<br>
>> instance. I re-thought the way I was presenting the course and the<br>>> next day I could feel a much better connection with the trainees.<br>>><br>>> If OLPC is to be relevant in rural Africa, it cannot just be about<br>
>> getting computers to places (beyond the interest of the elites) that<br>>> have virtually no education budget, precious few books and certainly<br>>> no computers, electricity or Internet connection. It needs to be about<br>
>> helping poorly resourced teachers who are struggling against the odds<br>>> to do the best they can with large classes and a blackboard. Many are<br>>> trying hard to do the best they can, in the only way they know,<br>
>> usually in a language that is not their first language (English) and<br>>> using a system imposed by the colonialists. Given the constraints they<br>>> face it is very understandable why they use rote learning.<br>
>><br>>> However the system is not appropriate for the Information Age. One of<br>>> the great ironies of the present educational system, as I see it, is<br>>> that it was modeled on a system developed in the UK largely to serve<br>
>> the commercial needs of the industrial revolution (all those<br>>> book-keepers and clerks with wonderful copperplate writing). But the<br>>> colonialists didn't bring an industrial revolution with them. No<br>
>> wonder there is unemployment amongst literate Nigerians and the civil<br>>> service is ludicrously overstaffed. What do you do with people who can<br>>> read and write when there is little commerce for them to serve? As my<br>
>> friend Mr Timothy says (on the farms) "we labour like animals", and<br>>> once people are numerate and literate they expect better opportunities<br>>> than "labouring like animals" - but most people in Nigeria will have<br>
>> to create those opportunities for themselves. That is the educational<br>>> challenge. As the excellent Ethiopian report points out, if OLPC is to<br>>> help, it will need to continue to consider cultural context as well as<br>
>> technology.<br>>><br>>> It is refreshing to see OLPC starting to address cultural issues more<br>>> seriously now, as well as technical ones. If the designers are<br>>> considering those aspects, then it does makes the whole project seem<br>
>> more potentially relevant to education in the rural areas that I know,<br>>> and others like them.<br>>><br>>> Pam<br>>><br>>> Extracts below from Ethiopia Implementation Report, September - December<br>
>> 2007<br>>> <a href="http://www.eduvision.ch/en/meta/documents/ethiopiareport_080227a-mh.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.eduvision.ch/en/meta/documents/ethiopiareport_080227a-mh.pdf</a><br>>><br>>> The aim of the study was to assess both the educational<br>
>> and technical effectiveness of the Eduvision software<br>>> when used on the XO laptops in Ethiopian classrooms.<br>>> (snip)<br>>> The dominant mode of education in Ethiopia can<br>>> best be understood against the background of a long<br>
>> established model of teaching, influenced by both<br>>> cultural and religious traditions (Lasonen et al 2005).<br>>> Such traditional models still play a significant formative<br>>> role for the educated population, with most current<br>
>> teachers and related professionals having received<br>>> their schooling within this context. Unsurprisingly, the<br>>> experience of learning in this environment has had<br>>> significant influence on the strategies employed in the<br>
>> teaching and learning process of today. From primary<br>>> through to tertiary education, those responsible for<br>>> education are, on the whole, teaching in the way they<br>>> themselves have been taught and perpetuating a rote-<br>
>> based approach to learning (Smith and Ngoma-Maema<br>>> 2003; Negash, 2006).<br>>> (snip)<br>>> Attempts to simply deposit a constructivist model of<br>>> education into an Ethiopian educational system which<br>
>> is firmly rooted in rote learning will face significant<br>>> challenges. The conceptual pedagogical shift required<br>>> is too radical to be implemented effectively without<br>>> time and attention given to gradual transition and<br>
>> contextualisation.<br>>> (snip)<br>>><br>>> 2008/6/22 Edward Cherlin <<a href="mailto:echerlin%40gmail.com" target="_blank">echerlin@gmail.com</a>>:<br>>> ><br>>> > On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 8:22 AM, christopher macrae<br>
>> > <<a href="mailto:chris.macrae%40yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">chris.macrae@yahoo.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br>>> ><br>>> > > Back in 1984, we wrote :by 2000 the discrepancy in incomes and<br>
>> > > expectations<br>>> > > will be seen as man's biggest risk; to go globally and sustainably,<br>>> > > systemic<br>>> > > poverty must be ended, give or take a few years this will require that<br>
>> > > by<br>>> > > 2010 a nobel prize winning economist to popularise to over 1 billion<br>>> > > tv<br>>> > > watchers the new sport of searching for 30000 community-rising and<br>
>> > > openly<br>>> > > replicable projects <a href="http://www.normanmacrae.com/netfuture.html" target="_blank">http://www.normanmacrae.com/netfuture.html</a><br>>> ><br>>> > Oh, not that many. The great thing about replicable projects is that<br>
>> > you can replicate them as often as needed. My short list of projects<br>>> > to replicate is<br>>> ><br>>> > * Microfinance: From Grameen to 10,000+ microfinance institutions<br>>> > worldwide so far. Also microinsurance for health care. Something like<br>
>> > 100,000 institutions will finish the job<br>>> > * Partners in Health, including health as a basic human right: started<br>>> > in Haiti, now in Latin America, Africa, Russia. A long way to go<br>
>> > still.<br>>> > * Sarvodaya Shramadana Movement: Integrated development in half of the<br>>> > villages of Sri Lanka. Beginning to move out to other countries. A<br>>> > very long way to go.<br>
>> > * One Laptop Per Child: Promoting collaborative discovery, independent<br>>> > thought, and wider sharing in dozens of countries; breaking down<br>>> > authoritarian school cultures. A long way to go still, but well under<br>
>> > way, like the others.<br>>> ><br>>> > I'm proposing organizations to research and deploy village-scale<br>>> > renewable power sources and Internet connections using microfinance in<br>
>> > order to bring all of these and many others together. When we have<br>>> > powerful education tools with the electricity and communications to<br>>> > make full use of them, I am predicting a considerable increase in<br>
>> > economic growth, fulfillment of the other UN Millennium Development<br>>> > Goals (health, clean water, and so on), and far more general<br>>> > cooperation in the younger generation, plus their parents and teachers<br>
>> > to a lesser degree.<br>>> ><br>>> > I can provide documentation on the merits of each of these. For<br>>> > example, we just got a report on OLPC XOs in Ethiopia. Ethiopia<br>>> > mplementation Report, September - December 2007<br>
>> > <a href="http://www.eduvision.ch/en/meta/documents/ethiopiareport_080227a-mh.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.eduvision.ch/en/meta/documents/ethiopiareport_080227a-mh.pdf</a><br>>> ><br>>> > My comments:<br>
>> ><br>>> > There are a few paragraphs of advertising, claiming that their<br>>> > software is better suited than the Sugar Activities for Ethiopian<br>>> > teaching methods. The reported test results mostly concerned<br>
>> > Eduvision's Melopo activities, rather than Sugar Activities. Since<br>>> > Melopo is also somewhat collaborative, the results should transfer.<br>>> ><br>>> > The most important observation is that teaching with the laptops, even<br>
>> > under the constraints of the prevailing system, changed teacher<br>>> > behavior toward more effective methods. Instead of reciting<br>>> > instructions without a chance to try them out, students began to be<br>
>> > encouraged to work on the computers, following instructions as they<br>>> > are given.<br>>> ><br>>> > Teachers began to use structured group activities and competitions,<br>>> > and to ask students to present material to the class. The structured<br>
>> > techniques that the teachers put into their XO lesson plans then<br>>> > spilled over into their non-computer classes. Where before any<br>>> > question from a student was seen as an insult to the teacher, teachers<br>
>> > began to offer individual instruction while other students were<br>>> > occupied on the computers. Students were encouraged to work in small<br>>> > groups, and began to help each other. After a time, teachers began to<br>
>> > allow questions generally, and to set aside time for them.<br>>> ><br>>> > Student motivation was observed to be higher because they could mark<br>>> > up their electronic texts with notes and highlighting. This is a<br>
>> > critical software function. Document readers alone are not sufficient.<br>>> > Eduvision recommends adding hyperlinks and some software functions to<br>>> > electronic texts. (I recommend adding way more software functions.)<br>
>> ><br>>> > The trial was quite successful in spite of many obstacles, such as XOs<br>>> > getting stuck in customs and delays in localizing texts to Amharic,<br>>> > and the somewhat unrealistic setting, with lots of professional help<br>
>> > for teachers every day, and classes half the usual size. Eduvision<br>>> > sees how several components of teacher training can be automated, and<br>>> > recommends providing sample lesson plans. A larger trial with 5000 XOs<br>
>> > was planned for April 2008. (I don't know what is actually happening<br>>> > with that.)<br>>> ><br>>> > We are not talking about a complete changeover to Constructionism on<br>
>> > the part of teachers, but the basic premise of the program is<br>>> > verified: Opportunity to do things better because of appropriate<br>>> > technology leads naturally to doing things better, in spite of<br>
>> > seemingly intractable cultural obstacles. We can get through to the<br>>> > teachers, to the great advantage of students. There is more to come,<br>>> > but let us be grateful that the XO is accepted as an agent of change<br>
>> > in addition to its more obvious benefits to schools.<br>>> ><br>>> > > However apart from backing Muhammad Yunus as the only person who<br>>> > > would dare<br>>> > > say that good humoredly to a billion people- premiering on Brazil's<br>
>> > > nationwide tv earlier this month for I hope a big audience to cheer! -<br>>> > > what<br>>> > > culturally is community-scale is not something for microeconomics (or<br>>> > > Gandhian microentrepreneurs) not to be precise about<br>
>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > > Schumacher preceded my father by forecasting globalization would need<br>>> > > to<br>>> > > network around 2 million villages: I am not clear if he was expecting<br>
>> > > a<br>>> > > village to be 35000 which is what 7 billion beings divided by 2<br>>> > > million<br>>> > > comes to.<br>>> ><br>>> > Villages are up to a few thousand. Most of the rest of the world's<br>
>> > population is in larger towns and cities. I don't know whether 2<br>>> > million is right, but it can't be more than 4 million.<br>>> ><br>>> > > Equally my father and I would beg you to always think of at least<br>
>> > > 2 ways to define communities classifications worldwide - for example<br>>> > > if the<br>>> > > internet to innovate any value whatosever the virtual village of 35000<br>>> > > independent thinkers may be just as vital to your economy or the world<br>
>> ><br>>> > One of the points about Constructionist education is to greatly<br>>> > increase the proportion of independent thinkers in the population.<br>>> ><br>>> > > economy as any geographical partition of 35000 people. If you can<br>
>> > > always be<br>>> > > cosy with 2 opposite classifications in mind handling 3 or more aint<br>>> > > that<br>>> > > difficult. Choice of 2 truths is so much harder to debate in mass<br>
>> > > media's<br>>> > > soundbiting era than one.<br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > > PRACTICAL CASES (please help improve their write ups if you will)<br>
>> > ><br>>> > > Consider 2 Examples of How Community Economics seems to work in<br>>> > > Bangladesh<br>>> > > and possibly why community has never worked its transparency in Africa<br>
>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > > 1 Bangladesh<br>>> > ><br>>> > > This most brilliantly human place on earth lets us look at what sort<br>>> > > of<br>
>> > > community banking sustains communities and enough independence at a<br>>> > > global<br>>> > > scale; here I absolutely need to read through a lot more literature to<br>>> > > understand the Bangladesh model (in fact we are forming at least 2<br>
>> > > different<br>>> > > book clubs that I expect will take a year to correct these first<br>>> > > parses)<br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > > but roughly Bangladesh as a nation = at least 100,000 dedicated<br>
>> > > community<br>>> > > servants (at Grameen, ASA, BRAC etc) empower over 25 million female<br>>> > > microentrepreneurs- according to Bill Clinton that superscaling up is<br>>> > > enough<br>
>> > > to drive the whole economy even if the top politicians are all in jail<br>>> > > -<br>>> > > currently 7% sustainbale compound growth<br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>
>> > ><br>>> > > again with just over 10,000 Bangladeshi branches a bank like Grameen<br>>> > > has 8<br>>> > > million owners or 800 per branch (though I want to treble check that<br>
>> > > arithmetic and again does a community of 800 owners sound like what<br>>> > > you<br>>> > > would expect as village size -particularly as we only have one owner<br>>> > > in each<br>
>> > > household and these may be 5 per household -oddly bringing us not far<br>>> > > from<br>>> > > 35000 again )...in fact I feel that a grameen bank actually serves<br>>> > > whatever<br>
>> > > villages are within say 10 miles radius of each other (ie multiple<br>>> > > villages)<br>>> ><br>>> > Yes.<br>>> ><br>>> > > -before the English invented trains (and unless you boatd) that was<br>
>> > > the<br>>> > > average distance a human being explored in a lifetime - remeber that<br>>> > > when<br>>> > > you first intall mobile telegram connections because te economic<br>
>> > > multipliers of you can hear me now are big!<br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > > 2 AFRICA<br>>> > ><br>>> > > I am taking a wild guess (so no worries on my side how much you can<br>
>> > > help me<br>>> > > learn) but I suggest that Africa suffers from a virulent problem that<br>>> > > I am<br>>> > > not aware any 20th C nation has solved<br>>> > ><br>
>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > > what happens when 0.1% of your land is oil/gold etc and 99.9% sand<br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > > ie how is wealth and health shared across all the geography of an<br>
>> > > Africa<br>>> > > nation rather than creating 2 asset-rideen apartheids: those who live<br>>> > > in and<br>>> > > own the oil well/gold mine and those who don't. I am aware that the<br>
>> > > communities who own the gold are variously called corporations, state<br>>> > > government, some hybrid but in all cases I am not aware (though future<br>>> > > hopeful of middle east models) of a "poor" nation that shares the<br>
>> > > natural<br>>> > > wealth equitably across its peoples as intergenrational time goes by.<br>>> > > And<br>>> > > Africa's bad luck is to be endowed with more natural commodity wealth<br>
>> > > than<br>>> > > any continent but never to have progressed equitably beyond the mess<br>>> > > that<br>>> > > European Empiredom historically mined<br>>> > ><br>
>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > > even as at a detail level I have made lots of errors, I hope you will<br>>> > > never<br>>> > > forget to relentlessly debate how community is everywhere in the<br>
>> > > jigsaw<br>>> > > puzzle pieces wherever future crisis of human sustainability is<br>>> > > compounding<br>>> > > up or down<br>>> ><br>>> > Bangladesh was also part of the British Empire, and was remorselessly<br>
>> > pillaged for centuries.<br>>> ><br>>> > One of the better correlates with growth in the last fifty years is<br>>> > the prior commitment to education in the culture, including the idea<br>
>> > (if not always the practice) that the purpose of government is the<br>>> > well-being of the entire nation, for various definitions of<br>>> > well-being.<br>>> ><br>>> > > Can we research the original truth of ENTREPRENEUR<br>
>> > ><br>>> > > <a href="http://www.ned.com/group/community-general/news/240/" target="_blank">http://www.ned.com/group/community-general/news/240/</a><br>>> > ><br>>> > > there can be a lot more in the economics debate at this ned thread<br>
>> > > which<br>>> > > could hugely benefit from you swarming there – though I will try to<br>>> > > summarise learnings at <a href="http://journalistsforhumanity.com/" target="_blank">http://journalistsforhumanity.com</a><br>
>> ><br>>> > I hear that free markets work well. We should try it sometime.<br>>> ><br>>> > > which leaves how do we the people debate- I am sorry but I believe the<br>>> > > worst<br>
>> > > in the world for community sustainability is the American democracy<br>>> > > every 4<br>>> > > years system fanned by 15 minutes of ads per 60 minutes of tv<br>>> > > viewing. I<br>
>> > > say this as a mathematician of media not someone who understands<br>>> > > politics of<br>>> > > left or right anywhere at national levels. I agree that is extremely<br>>> > > ignorant of me.<br>
>> ><br>>> > There is definitely something to be said for a simple vote of No<br>>> > Confidence rather than a legalistic impeachment process that the<br>>> > legislature dare not invoke.<br>
>> ><br>>> > > PEOPLE POWER DEBATES<br>>> > ><br>>> > > If I could wish: Dr Yunus on tv every might linked into <a href="http://google.org/" target="_blank">google.org</a><br>>> > > communities searching for 30000 open community projects<br>
>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > > If world citizen nets cannot weave that wish, we also like:<br>>> > ><br>>> > > Oxford union debates <a href="http://oxbridge.tv/_wsn/page3.html" target="_blank">http://oxbridge.tv/_wsn/page3.html</a><br>
>> > ><br>>> > > Open Space 1000 person gatherings the HO way <a href="http://futuresunited.com/" target="_blank">http://futuresunited.com/</a><br>>> > ><br>>> > > 31000 person Gandhi-Montessori schools in one city and thus their<br>
>> > > parent<br>>> > > etacher networks<br>>> ><br>>> > The Montessori movement has become utterly hidebound. Instead of<br>>> > continuing to recognize even more ways that children invent for<br>
>> > themselves to learn, they have become rigid orthodoxies each assuring<br>>> > themselves that the others have got it all wrong. (The experience that<br>>> > did it for me was when my daughter decided to do a jigsaw puzzle<br>
>> > upside down as an additional challenge, and the Montessori school<br>>> > teacher wouldn't let her.)<br>>> ><br>>> > One Laptop Per Child has inherited the Montessori mantle by promoting<br>
>> > collaborative discovery, encouraging students to find new ways of<br>>> > using the tools provided, and even to create new tools.<br>>> ><br>>> > > We also know ways of turning any global brand into such a Q&A debate<br>
>> > > but<br>>> > > that needs closing down the brand's ad agency for a year while the<br>>> > > people<br>>> > > debate how to return communications of image and reality to the same<br>
>> > > means<br>>> > > and the same ends<br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > ><br>>> > > You might have guessed the bottom line. As a lover of true community,<br>
>> > > I<br>>> > > would love to hear of other communications methods that celebrate the<br>>> > > humanity or flow with the hi-trust entrepreneur.<br>>> ><br>>> > We're working on it.<br>
>> ><br>>> > > chris macrae<br>>> > ><br>>> > > <a href="http://worldcitizen.tv/" target="_blank">worldcitizen.tv</a>, <a href="http://wholeplanet.tv/" target="_blank">wholeplanet.tv</a> washington dc bureau 301 881 1655<br>
>> ><br>>> > --<br>>> > Edward Cherlin<br>>> > End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business<br>>> > <a href="http://www.earthtreasury.org/" target="_blank">http://www.EarthTreasury.org/</a><br>
>> > "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> --<br>>> Edward Cherlin<br>>> End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business<br>
>> <a href="http://www.earthtreasury.org/" target="_blank">http://www.EarthTreasury.org/</a><br>>> "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay<br>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Grassroots mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:Grassroots%40lists.laptop.org" target="_blank">Grassroots@lists.laptop.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/grassroots" target="_blank">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/grassroots</a><br>
><br>><br><br>-- <br>Edward Cherlin<br>End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business<br><a href="http://www.earthtreasury.org/" target="_blank">http://www.EarthTreasury.org/</a><br>"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay<br>
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