<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dear Walter and Andres,<div><br></div><div>I have been so excited about the OLPC project that I finally put my money where my mouth is and have just purchased one through the give one get one campaign. I expect it in the next few days, and I can't wait to play with it! I will also take it to my children's club and have all the kids play your program. This will give us a good indication of the programs playing strength, which would be critical for any kind of handicap mode.</div><div><br></div><div>Glad you have found my feedback helpful. I would still very much like to discuss the possibility of creating an interactive tutorial directly within the game. It would be a much more natural way to learn. As I mentioned before, I would be happy to write all of the content, you would just need a way to have the program play out the moves and offer options. I would also like to edit the Wiki page on Go, or replace it completely. Would that be okay with you guys? Is there a review process or something that I should go through?</div><div><br></div><div>Also, I wanted to share some interesting comments from AGF President Terry Benson. He is referring to area counting instead of territory counting. Area counting counts both the territory and the stones on the board. This is the traditional Chinese method. Territory counting is the traditional Japanese method and counts only the empty space. Terry's point is that if the program used area counting, then it wouldn't matter that the computer wasted moves to capture every dead stone or group in its territory, it also wouldn't affect the person's score. It wouldn't solve the problem of teaching beginners bad moves, but it would definitely be easier to program. Terry's comments are below:</div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF"><br></font></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: -webkit-monospace; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF">I am curious about the underlying rule set and rule concept being used and, while I've read everything, I can't quite be sure. We are (I hope) using an area concept. The computer appears to count "territory" and so beginners will lose if they make unnecessary moves. This is one of the reasons I think territory is bad (besides the inability to see when the game is over). Capturing all the dead stones is "unnecessary" except when you can't see that the stones are dead. What you and I would consider necessary playing out is, to the pros, just as unnecessary as the dead stones on the left of the screen shot. It's all relative. The point is to be able to let the players play out any situations unclear to them with no penalty.<br><br>If the computer counts everything - living stones and territory - it will solve a bunch of problems. The new WMSG rules use Ing Fill-in which is equivalent to area. So anything we do should be area based. Beginners don't need pass stones if they count stones and territory and I would make that explicit. ("Players in some countries make the counting easier by only counting the empty territory points. But in that case, players must hand over a pass stone as a prisoner each time they pass.") The new WMGG rules do not require white to play last and - in fact - deduct one point if white passes first (meaning black played last). This adjustment in the komi (either 6.5 or 7.5 depending on who passes first) makes a 6.5 komi meaningful.<br><br>That's background info. For the case here, the point is that when you pass you hand over a stone. If black plays last, white doesn't (as under AGA rules) hand over an extra pass stone. This is close to WMSG rules.</font><br></span></div><div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Thanks much,</div><div><br></div><div>Paul</div><div><br></div><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 20px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 20px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 20px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-size: 20px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div>Paul Barchilon,</div><div>American Go Foundation</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://tigersmouth.org">http://tigersmouth.org</a></div><div><a href="http://agfgo.org">http://agfgo.org</a></div><div><br></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><span><img height="75" width="75" src="cid:7E325FA2-B16C-466F-81A0-F9825541B16B@hsd1.co.comcast.net."></span> </div></span></div></span></span></div><br><div><div>On Oct 24, 2008, at 6:58 AM, Walter Bender wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Great feedback!! Especially in light of consideration of our learning<br>goals. Thanks.<br><br>-walter<br><br>On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 4:02 AM, Paul Barchilon <<a href="mailto:shimari@comcast.net">shimari@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">Hi Andres,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Here is a list of most of the problems. Some of these may be caused by<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">running the program on the emulator. I was able to fix the view menu,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">thanks for the suggestion. With komi the scoring is correct, except the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">half point issue. The number of prisoners I had in the games I played did<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">not make it evident that there was komi, I thought they just weren't being<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">counted, or in one case added to the wrong color.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">1) A player should be able to choose color as well as board size.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">2) Your program is strong enough to beat any beginner, so you need to create<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">a handicap module. With handicaps, the AI could play people at 18 different<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">ranks, guaranteeing a lot more interest in the game. If a beginner simply<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">loses every game, they will rapidly lose interest.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">3) The scoring mechanism is abstract and confusing. A visual display of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">prisoners would be helpful. The game lists prisoners as "score" which is<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">not correct. Komi is not indicated anywhere, but that should also be<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">something you can choose along with handicap. It should be displayed on the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">side, along with "Prisoners" for each side.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">4) The computer waits to display the move you make until after it has<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">decided on its move. This makes a person think their move hasn't been<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">registered. When the move does appear, it comes at the same time as your<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">prior move. When there are many stones on the board, it is extremely<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">difficult to find where the computer moved - especially if it is not in the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">same area. The last played stone for either color should have a circle or<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">some other mark in it.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">5) The program does not understand the concept of dead stones. It must<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">surround and capture stones in order to score them. In actual play when<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">both players realize a group or a stone has no possibility of making two<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">eyes,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the group is simply abandoned. It is not necessary to spend extra stones to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">capture them, they should be removed automatically at the end of the game.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Obviously this is a difficult assessment for the computer to make. KGS<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">solves this problem by asking the player to mark any dead stones. Some kind<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">of pop up menu that explains the concept and tells a person to mark the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">stones prior to scoring would work. It is a little tricky because new<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">players won't know which stones are dead either. Solving this problem will<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">take some creativity, but I am sure we can come up with something. I have<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">screen captures to demonstrate this, but I am not attaching them to this<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">message as doing so seems to cause the message to be blocked from the list.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> I will try sending the screen caps to your personal e-mail and see if that<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">works.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">6) The program makes unnecessary moves at the end of the game. It appears<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to think that all stones must be connected into a single group. It also<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">fills points and makes eyes where they are not needed. This could actually<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">cause the program to lose a game it has won, and it could possibly cause it<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to fill a liberty that would put its own group in danger, or create a seki.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Again, I have a screen cap for this.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">7) I get hovering ghost stones that get stuck on the board. They are<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">semi-transparent, and occur at random. This may be something the emulator<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">is causing.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">8) I have had difficulty starting a second game with the AI every time. It<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">fails to clear the board if you click "Play against Play Go." If you hit the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">reload arrow, it clears the board, but then nothing happens after you play<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">your stone. It seems to be in two player mode. If you click play against<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">play go again, still nothing happens. Then if you place a second stone, the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">AI kicks in and you are white and the computer plays black, but the person<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">had to play the first two stones. I had to keep clicking on reload and new<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">game repeatedly to get it to launch another game. The first one always<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">worked, the others are problematic. Could be an emulation issue.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">9) I see no way to choose opponents, and no way to negotiate color with them<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">either. If two kids are playing over their local network, they need to be<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">able to do this. Perhaps this functionality has not been added to the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">program yet. A chat interface within the program would be helpful for this<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">kind of thing, although perhaps kids could use the OLPC chat program while<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">they are playing. Whatever the case, some communication is necessary to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">start the game.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">10) The introduction page, from Wikipedia, is not really a good guide for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">kids. Our Tigersmouth explanation is better, but probably needs alteration<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">for this project too. The Interactive Way to Go might be the best choice,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">as it is already in a great many languages. It needs Java to run though.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> Does Java come pre-installed on the laptops? I tried to download and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">install it, but it wouldn't work. We don't want kids to have to download<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">something separate to learn how to play. A tutorial within the program<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">might be a better way to explain the game to kids. We could write the words<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and create the moves if that is something you might be able to implement. A<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">learn the rules button could launch this mode, kids could click on a button<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to advance after they read each description and looked at the example.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">We should play on KGS and talk about these things. I think you are three<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">hours earlier than I am, depending on where in Uruguay you are. I am GMT<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-7. Evenings are good for me, but I could play during the day if necessary.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Next Wednesday, the 29th, would work for me. Other days are okay too, let<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">me know what works for you. the 13 year old who has a laptop said he might<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">be able to join us also. He thinks he is about 19 kyu, he cannot beat your<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">program.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I am very glad your English is so good, my Spanish is terrible ;)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Thanks,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Paul Barchilon,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">American Go Foundation<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://tigersmouth.org">http://tigersmouth.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://agfgo.org">http://agfgo.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Oct 23, 2008, at 1:40 AM, Andrés Ambrois wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Thursday 23 October 2008 05:15:36 you wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I sent this message last week, but it came back with a message that it<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">needed moderation (I guess because I included a screen shot). It<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">appears to have never been posted to the list, so here it is again<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">without the image:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi Andres,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi!<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I spent a good deal of time playing with the program and overall was<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">quite impressed! It looks great, and plays fairly well. There are<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">many little problems, and a couple of major ones. The scoring engine<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">got the wrong result on every game I played, there are clearly some<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">mistaken instructions in the module itself. Should I post the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">problems to this list or would it be better to talk about them on the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">phone, or during a game on KGS? This week is looking pretty busy for<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">me, so it would have to be next week for the latter. I am on mountain<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">time in the US, where are you?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Thanks! I wonder how the scoring engine is failing. What it does is take<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">your territories, subtract the prisoners your enemy has taken, and if<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">you're<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">White add 5.5 komi. The scores are currently displaying as integers, this<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">stupid and I need to fix it.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Please post any problems you find :). I'm from Uruguay, so your phone<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">bill is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">going to be an issue =P.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Also, I am unable to right click in the software. I think the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">emulation doesn't recognize my mouse. Option click or command click<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">don't trigger it either. This means I can't access the jabber online<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">play option you were mentioning.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Right clicking is not necessary, if you just leave the mouse over what<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">you're trying to "right-click" on for a few seconds, it will have the same<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">effect.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">When I browse the web, sites are enlarged to the wrong screen<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">resolution. As a result, fonts are huge, and you can only see the top<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">left corner of a web site, even one that is at 800x600. Is there a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">way to control this in the program, or from outside of it? Is it<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">doing this because I am on a Mac and using an emulator? I attach a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">screen shot of our Tiger's Mouth site so you can see the problem.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I believe this is a problem with the emulator. Maybe this can help you<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Emulating_the_XO/Quick_Start/Mac">http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Emulating_the_XO/Quick_Start/Mac</a> and more<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">specifically this:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Emulating_the_XO/Help_and_tips#Font_Size_correction">http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Emulating_the_XO/Help_and_tips#Font_Size_correction</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">If that doesn't work, you can at least reduce the font size in Browse in<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">"View" Menu, or by pressing Ctrl+-.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Cheers!<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Paul<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://tigersmouth.org">http://tigersmouth.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Paul Barchilon<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">1005 36th St.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Boulder, CO 80303-2139<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">303-440-7124<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Oct 12, 2008, at 1:50 PM, Andrés Ambrois wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Sunday 12 October 2008 17:28:15 Paul Barchilon wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi Walter,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">That was exactly the right question to ask! I was trying the LiveCD<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">method with XO-LiveCD_080919.iso, which didn't work. When I<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">created a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">"new PC" in Qemu and told it to use olpc-redhat-stream-ship.2-<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">devel_ext3.img then it worked.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Still trying to figure out how to get the screen size to the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">appropriate dimensions, and now I have to figure out how to use your<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">OS. From there I will load PlayGo and get back to all of you.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">for the help, I am glad I got in finally!<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Great! I'm glad you got it. To install PlayGo just head to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://wiki.laptop.org/go/PlayGo">http://wiki.laptop.org/go/PlayGo</a> with the Browse activity and click<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">on the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">PlayGo.xo link in the box on the upper right. Then you can launch it<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">from the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Journal or in the list view in the Home.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Here is another comment from the kid who is giving me feedback on his<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">laptop:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">From leinad<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Date 10/11/2008 23:39<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subject RE: one thing about playgo i can<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">i dont think it is online i think you have to be physically near<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">another XO...<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">and i do not have access to wi-fi that frequently...<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">also i noticed that the program does not take away dead stones...<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I am not sure if he means it doesn't take dead stones off during<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">play,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">or at the end, both are important though. I will definitely want to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">play a game with Andres on KGS, I think we could figure out all the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">problems quite quickly that way.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I'm not sure about what he means by that either. The game does take<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">away<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">dead stones, and supports collaboration. To play it "online" you<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">will need to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">connect to an online jabber server. If you have a recent version of<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">system, this is done by right clicking on the "XO guy" in the home<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">view -><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Control Panel -> Network and typing: jabber.laptop.org in the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">"Server" field.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Then, you will need to click on the "tick" mark and restart Sugar.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sure, I'm on KGS now as a guest, my handle is aambrois. Please go<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">easy on me<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">=P.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Paul<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thank you!<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://barchilonceramics.com">http://barchilonceramics.com</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Paul Barchilon<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">1005 36th St.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Boulder, CO 80303-2139<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">303-440-7124<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-Andrés<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> -Andrés<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Games mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Games@lists.laptop.org">Games@lists.laptop.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/games">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/games</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br><br><br>-- <br>Walter Bender<br>Sugar Labs<br><a href="http://www.sugarlabs.org">http://www.sugarlabs.org</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>Games mailing list<br>Games@lists.laptop.org<br>http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/games<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>