[Egypt-opensource] Re: Egypt-opensource Digest, Vol 2, Issue 2

Wed Jul 19 17:03:31 EDT 2006

some more thoughts...
I think we are all on the same page in thinking that censoring is a
battle we don't really want to fight, and ultimately can't win in the
sense that there is always some loophole.  And I agree with Roland,
that it isn't really OLPC's problem or responsibility.  However I am
thinking more from the perspective of helping the Egyptian government
and Egyptian communities address these problems.  If filtering of
sites  perceived as morally corrupting youth is allowed to fall
through the cracks, it could lead to problems and cause a refusal and
rejection of the project for political reasons, before it's given the
chance to prove itself.  I think if there was some forethought to some
of the security issues it would prevent last-minute problems and
inadequate patches that don't address some of the deeper issues.  For
example one of the dangers I could see (that would fall closer to
OLPC's "responsibility" as others might see it) would be the creation
of sizable intranet's, rather than actual internet access.  For
example, in a city like Cairo, you could have a million kids that are
connected to each other in a 1-mile radius without internet access,
and someone might think, "Wow, I could disseminate a huge amount of
information to a huge number of kids (or their families for that
matter), if I just access this mesh network."  And who would be able
to have any idea what's going on?  That is something that could really
cause concern to political leaders in Egypt (as well as lots of other
places), and if it is brought to their attention late in the game it
could throw a wrench in the process.  My suggestion is not that we
should be eager to censor, but eager to inform in matters of such
sensitivity, even before we are asked, concerning the possible
scenarios that could arise, and how to anticipate them.  Actually the
long-term goal would be equipping and training the Egyptians who will
eventually be responsible for those issues how to understand the
systemic nature and the implications of the huge scale of the project.
 Is there some way to identify the potential Egyptian leaders in this
area, and start thinking with them about how to anticipate and
navigate some of these potential problems?

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Security, Filtering and Islam (Khaled Hassounah)
   2. Re: Security, Filtering and Islam
      (Roland.A.Burger - Club of Rome think tank 30 Italy)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:52:48 -0400
From: Khaled Hassounah <khaled at laptop.org>
Subject: Re: [Egypt-opensource] Security, Filtering and Islam
To: egypt-opensource at laptop.org
Message-ID: <44BD6640.1080705 at laptop.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Joel,

This has not come up in discussions with the government as a concern
yet, although I expect it to. The interesting thing, is that filtering
happens closer to the Internet than we would have a say in or ability to
control. So this is not likely to be an issue that will be discussed
with us.

We have no interest in actively censoring the Internet. Existing
experiences (in the state of Maine and the wide use of Internet in the
US generally) has shown this not to be as serious a concern as initially
perceived. I can't think of a 6 year old who would rather spend his/her
time on a porn site than a cartoon or animation site.

Once kids are knowledgeable enough in how to use their computers, no
matter how many barriers you put, if they want to reach something they
will. Censorship is not the solution and could actually act as an
incentive rather than a deterrent.

I would be interested in hearing other opinions of course :)

Khaled

Joel Mitchell wrote:
> I have wondered, as someone living in a primarily Islamic country, if
> there is or will be a significantly greater concern about security and
> filtering of inappropriate content in Egypt.  I have heard that there is
> already some sort of centralized filtering or surveillance of internet
> activity generally in Egypt, but the standards for this might be higher
> for children.  I read a recent article about 8e6
> <http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20060705005083&newsLang=en>
> working on some security solutions, but I wondered how far this had
> gotten.  I would love to hear whether this has come up in talks with
> Egypt and the Ministry of Education people there.
> thanks,
>     Joel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Egypt-opensource mailing list
> Egypt-opensource at laptop.org
> http://mailman.laptop.org/mailman/listinfo/egypt-opensource

--
Khaled Hassounah
OLPC - http://laptop.org

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:09:58 +0200
From: Roland.A.Burger - Club of Rome think tank 30 Italy
        <rb.olpc.list.egyptopen at clubofrome.it>
Subject: Re: [Egypt-opensource] Security, Filtering and Islam
To: Khaled Hassounah <khaled at laptop.org>, egypt-opensource at laptop.org
Message-ID: <20060718230958.3a7925a3 at mail.nematrix.it>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi,

These are fair concerns, and we have to deal with reality here. Just
have a look at the situation in China for instance.

But I think we also have to draw a line, between where the
responsibility of OLPC ends and where government one's begins.

OLPC primarily deals with the design and shipment of the OLPC and at
the moment dedicates most of its resources to the goal of shipping the
first units.

The governments are the clients on behalf of their children.

This is not to say that OLPC should not think about these issues, but
I think it is too early to begin worrying about.

On the same lines i see Internet connectivity, especially in rural
areas in developing countries (like Egypt or Nigeria).

First we need to worry to get the Internet to those remote areas, at
reasonable speeds (and what about broadband, but that is another
story).

That is a far greater concern in my view than censorship, initially.

But I really think that most of the people, including governments,
underestimate the revolutionary power of the OLPC concept anyway.

That is, the OLPC is a sort of Troian Horse that will bring freedom
somehow sooner or later.

Once children grow up with the ability to freely communicate between
themselves, they will not be happy with censorship at all once the
grow up.

Finally even if governments try to censor the Internet, there are in
any case ways to circumwent those kind of filters (aka Peek-a-booty or
others) and there always will be.

Roland

  _____

From: Khaled Hassounah [mailto:khaled at laptop.org]
To: egypt-opensource at laptop.org
Sent: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:52:48 +0200
Subject: Re: [Egypt-opensource] Security, Filtering and Islam

Joel,

This has not come up in discussions with the government as a concern
yet, although I expect it to. The interesting thing, is that filtering
happens closer to the Internet than we would have a say in or ability to
control. So this is not likely to be an issue that will be discussed
with us.

We have no interest in actively censoring the Internet. Existing
experiences (in the state of Maine and the wide use of Internet in the
US generally) has shown this not to be as serious a concern as initially
perceived. I can't think of a 6 year old who would rather spend his/her
time on a porn site than a cartoon or animation site.

Once kids are knowledgeable enough in how to use their computers, no
matter how many barriers you put, if they want to reach something they
will. Censorship is not the solution and could actually act as an
incentive rather than a deterrent.

I would be interested in hearing other opinions of course :)

Khaled

Joel Mitchell wrote:
> I have wondered, as someone living in a primarily Islamic country, if
> there is or will be a significantly greater concern about security and
> filtering of inappropriate content in Egypt.  I have heard that there is
> already some sort of centralized filtering or surveillance of internet
> activity generally in Egypt, but the standards for this might be higher
> for children.  I read a recent article about 8e6
> <http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20060705005083&newsLang=en>
> working on some security solutions, but I wondered how far this had
> gotten.  I would love to hear whether this has come up in talks with
> Egypt and the Ministry of Education people there.
> thanks,
>     Joel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Egypt-opensource mailing list
> Egypt-opensource at laptop.org
> http://mailman.laptop.org/mailman/listinfo/egypt-opensource

--
Khaled Hassounah
OLPC - http://laptop.org

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