<div dir="ltr">I think a lot of the frustration around the journal could be abated by publishing a roadmap with actual projected times when each feature is planned to be available for testing in a joyride and then projected release number. Many of the experiments and research-type proposals have sounded excellent as fixes or at least mitigations for the journal's underlying problems. But from the outside perspective what I see reading conversations about this on the list is a sense that there are true believers inside the olpc and sugar development team that hold to a belief that a great day is coming for the journal, but without a concrete roadmap making that belief real to those only experiencing the difficulty in dealing with what is there right now, they sometimes sound a bit delusional. (Not saying that they are...it's just a big mismatch between pie-in-the-sky pictures of a cloudy goal and no visible stepping stones to that goal).<br>
<br>One thing that might help is a wiki FAQ about the journal collecting a roadmap and pointers to the work that has taken place already in one place.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Michael Stone <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michael@laptop.org">michael@laptop.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 12:55:43PM -0400, Erik Garrison wrote:<br>
>You acknowledge that the system is not functioning as well as it should<br>
>be in its curren state. Please stop saying "we are going to do this"<br>
<br>
Instead, please stop saying "we are going to do this" and just do it and<br>
be done with it!<br>
<br>
>and look for the simplest way to achieve a usable system for our usesr.<br>
<br>
Your arguments are impassioned but not persuasive. Please accept the<br>
fact that a cadre of People Who Have Shipped Software believe that<br>
making a good Journal is worth attempting one more time. If their choice<br>
proves faulty over the next six months, then you will be in a stronger<br>
position to argue your case; if not, then I believe the issue will be<br>
moot.<br>
<br>
>I will gladly help in this endeavor, but I am concerned by our security<br>
>system and the frequent implications that we are holding to old designs<br>
>that my ideas and motivation have no place in this effort.<br>
<br>
Either cite specific concerns or desist from raising this issue.<br>
<br>
>I don't think we can incorporate the concept of memory and forgetting<br>
>into the Journal in a programmatic way. Forgetting is as much a learned<br>
>skill as remembering, and attempting to replicate it in software seems<br>
>like a very difficult, if impossible, task.<br>
<br>
Attendees of the previous Journal Summit: please write down the<br>
algorithm you constructed for forgetting so that Erik can evaluate it.<br>
<br>
Erik: in the mean time, please tender opinions on [1] since this topic<br>
has been dealt with before by others.<br>
<br>
[1]: <a href="http://www.cs.ubc.ca/%7Efeeley/papers/1999-4.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~feeley/papers/1999-4.pdf</a><br>
<br>
>I feel that we are tilting at windmills if we believe we can reliably<br>
>produce something so incredible in any conceivable timeframe.<br>
<br>
I believe that we have already produced something incredible, including<br>
but not limited to shipping or making available<br>
<br>
* power management capable of yielding 10-hour battery life<br>
* essentially all activities filesystem-isolated by default<br>
* a bandwidth-efficient atomic update system w/ rollback<br>
* a first-boot activation and passive-kill system which still permits<br>
the laptops to be fully unlocked at user request<br>
* a document-centric paradigm which was sufficiently compelling to<br>
inspire a document-centric GNOME summit<br>
* a distribution with a deep commitment and impressive support for<br>
multi-locale usage and for usage by illiterate users.<br>
* an implementation of the 802.11(s) draft spec<br>
<br>
to an installed user base on the order of 500K users.<br>
<br>
We have also constructed but not yet shipped or shipped demo-quality<br>
implementations of:<br>
<br>
* demo-quality networked collaboration software good enough to spur<br>
real interest<br>
* a revised Journal,<br>
* an indexed versioned content-addressed filesystem,<br>
* network isolation,<br>
* efficient multicast wireless data and presence transport,<br>
* server-side jabber event filtering and searching<br>
<br>
Finally, we have substantial design and requirements documents waiting<br>
for implementation in each of security, networking, and the UI.<br>
<br>
In conclusion, given how far we've come in the past two years, I<br>
sincerely hope that we continue to attempt the same task for the next<br>
two years. Where is your evidence that we're taking on too much?<br>
<br>
>I am furthermore frustrated by the tight integration of the Journal into<br>
>the window manager.<br>
<br>
Please point to the integration between the journal and the window<br>
manager which bothers you. I do not believe any substantive integration<br>
exists between those components (though I acknowledge the integration<br>
between the shell and the window manager and between the shell and<br>
the journal).<br>
<br>
>In particular, our security model has the effect of preventing work on<br>
>this issue that isn't supported by all the core developers.<br>
<br>
Scott seems to be suffering from no impediment from our security model<br>
so please explain your complaint in more detail or<br>
<br>
rm /etc/olpc-security<br>
<br>
and get on with life.<br>
<br>
> We can only have one file management application.<br>
<br>
We presently intend to _ship_ only one filer. We'd be happy to have a<br>
choice about which one to ship, though.<br>
<br>
> I am afraid that I or another interested developer will implement such<br>
>systems but find they are rejected by the core developers,<br>
<br>
Shall I quote Roosevelt or Palpatine?<br>
<br>
> and it will be impossible even for users desire to use them to easily<br>
> do so.<br>
<br>
This is a separate problem; please treat it as such.<br>
<br>
(Mildly) frustratedly yours,<br>
<br>
Michael<br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>"The water won't clear up 'til we get the hogs out of the creek." -- Jim Hightower<br>
</div>