<p class="MsoPlainText">I honestly believe that what Tim Falconer is intending to
do with waveplace could have a fundamental, significant impact on helping the larger olpc community to develop projects, and get pr, and
be a way to help people get acquainted with how the collaborative stuff can
play out. <a href="http://www.waveplace.net">www.waveplace.net</a> -- he has a freelance abc cameraman waiting to go
and a teacher. This is why I sold my tech stock to make funds available (when I
need them for my own non-profit shenanigans) -- and I'm trying to find extra
funding. I think that people will respond to stories, and waveplace is a story
waiting to happen -- and it would be lovely to refer to this in "neo
documentation". I apologize if I'm repeating myself. I was still a bit
skeptical about constructivism but Tim is the one who convinced a skeptic. If I
had a million dollars I'd kidnap tim, hire a publicist and put him on every
television show and media outlet around the world that I possibly could. </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">From: <a href="mailto:devel-bounces@lists.laptop.org">devel-bounces@lists.laptop.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:devel-bounces@lists.laptop.org">devel-bounces@lists.laptop.org</a>] On Behalf Of Jim Gettys</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:27 AM</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">To: Steve Fullerton</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Cc: <a href="mailto:devel@lists.laptop.org">devel@lists.laptop.org</a>; <a href="mailto:localization@lists.laptop.org">localization@lists.laptop.org</a></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Subject: Re: slightly long and detailed proposal
fordocumentation-translation workflow</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Ah, the manuals are needed to keep teachers and parents
in their</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">"comfort zone".<span style="">
</span>That the children will teach each other we have no</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">doubt at all, but older people have different
expectations.<span style=""> </span>And keeping</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">them comfortable with OLPC is also needed.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Also remember that the collaboration aspects are new, and
not what</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">people have seen before.<span style="">
</span>I would expect that there is where we should</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">concentrate our effort most.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style=""> </span>- Jim</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">On Mon, 2007-10-15 at 17:09 -0700, Steve Fullerton wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Hi Ed and all,</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> I fully appreciate the detail.<span style=""> </span>However, IMHO I think that there is</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> some re-thinking required re: the traditional
"user" documentation.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> The core<span style=""> </span>of
the OLPC (literally one laptop per child; the model does</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> not work as well if there is not possession of a
laptop for each</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> child) is that of collaboration. </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> One child learning something and then teaching
his/her classmates.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> OLPC machines are not meant to be used in
isolation.<span style=""> </span>You could</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> actually make a credible argument that user manuals
are bad for the</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> project.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> The highly intuitive design of Sugar and the
experience of the pilots</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> bears this out.<span style="">
</span>The children seem to do just great without manuals,</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> discovery is enhanced, and many of the
constructionist ideals are</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> realized.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> What do you think?</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> On 10/15/07, Ed Trager <<a href="mailto:ed.trager@gmail.com">ed.trager@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>Hi,
Michael,</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>Just a
few comments for consideration by everyone:</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
...</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
Doc writing conventions:</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
Some linguistic research has been done on "simplified</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>English" as a</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
subset of English to use for low-level learners, and I think</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>that
it </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
might be a good place to look for ways to simplify the</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>source_docs.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
But just thinking intuitively, I have cooked up the</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>following</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
suggestions in order to generate discussion:</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>><span style=""> </span>* Pronouns. </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>><span style=""> </span>o Use the
first-person singular pronoun "I" to</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>represent the</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
author of the docs,</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>><span style=""> </span>o the second-person
singular pronoun "you" to</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>represent the</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
reader of the docs, and </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>><span style=""> </span>o the first-person
plural pronoun "we" to</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>represent the OLPC project.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>><span style=""> </span>o Examples.
"We have designed a screen that</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>switches to</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
black-and-white to conserve energy. I will explain how to</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>switch
your </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
screen to black-and-white. First, you press the X button on</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>your</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
keyboard...." Because we want the docs to be easily</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>translated and</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
easily understood, the tone should be personal, using "I"</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>for
the </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
voice of the writer. This will be easier for amateur</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>translators to</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
translate and easier for younger readers to understand. This</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>will
also</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
help the writer avoid the passive construction, which is</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>very </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
difficult for some non-native English speakers to</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>understand.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>I
agree completely that the English passive construction</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>should
be</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>avoided
at all times.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>I
mostly agree with your suggestion on use of pronouns.<span style=""> </span>Use</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>of
"I" </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>and
"we" are fine.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>REGARDING THE PRONOUN "YOU" IN ENGLISH:</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>----------------------------------------------------------</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>However, as a native English speaker, I find the use of the</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>pronoun </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>"you" in the imperative mood often quite jarring.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>Imperative
sentences in which the "you" is absent are</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>understood by</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>native
speakers of English to convey a softer, less imperative</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>tone.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>Such
sentences are considered more polite. Compare:</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>(A)
"First you press the X button on the keyboard."</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>...
versus:</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>(B)
"First, press the X button on the keyboard."</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>One or
two instances of "you" in imperatives or directions in</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>spoken
</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>or
written English may not seem too bad, but after a series of</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>them,</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>it
becomes irritating.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>So
while I have no objection to simple English which will be</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>easily</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>understood by younger learners of the language, we must also</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>be
sure </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>that
we do not proscribe an incorrect idea regarding the usage</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>of the</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>pronoun "you" in imperative sentences in English.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span><span style=""> </span>In short, it is *not* OK to use
"you" repeatedly in a series</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>of</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>imperatives or directions (such as instructions for using a</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>laptop).</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>The
absence of the pronoun "you" is preferred when giving</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>directions</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>in
English.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>REGARDING POSSESSIVE PRONOUNS:</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>----------------------------------------------- </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>Look
again at the sentances Michael used for his example:</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>> I
will explain how to switch your screen to black-and-white.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>>
First, you press the X button on your keyboard...."</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>English speakers make frequent use of possessive pronouns, as</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>is the
</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>case
here with : "your screen" , "your keyboard" .</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>But in
many other languages (perhaps most other languages?) we</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>would</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>not
use possessive pronouns here at all.<span style=""> </span>All
of these English</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>"your"s, if translated quite directly into foreign languages,</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>results </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>in
very annoying and unnatural sounding texts in my</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>experience.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>So I
would advise we try to fix the English from the start by</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>avoiding</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>unecessary invocations of possessive pronouns, especially</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>"your": </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>I will explain how to switch the screen to</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>black-and-white.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>First, press the X button on the keyboard...."</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>I
basically agree with the rest of Michael's suggestions, so</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>that's</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>all
the comments I have.</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>-- Ed
Trager</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span>_______________________________________________</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style=""> </span>Devel
mailing list</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span><a href="mailto:Devel@lists.laptop.org">Devel@lists.laptop.org</a></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">><span style="">
</span><a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel</a></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> -- </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Regards,</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Steve</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> ____________________________</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Steven C. Fullerton</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> email: <a href="mailto:fullerton.steve@gmail.com">fullerton.steve@gmail.com</a></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> cell/voice mail: 619.339.9116</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> ____________________________ </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> _______________________________________________</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Devel mailing list</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <a href="mailto:Devel@lists.laptop.org">Devel@lists.laptop.org</a></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <a href="http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel">http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel</a></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-- </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Jim Gettys</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">One Laptop Per Child</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">_______________________________________________</p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Devel mailing list</p>
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