Thread on a new model for collaboration
juliano at lec.ufrgs.br
Mon Oct 27 17:40:52 EDT 2008
First of all I would like to bring some perspective to this
discussion. I don't want that this become a thread Amadis x Moodle,
because I think both don't have what is necessary to support change in
education on primary schools around the world. I composed this message
about collaboration because I really wanted to stress some ideas
internally before having an open discussion with the community.
I agree with you about all the qualities that moddle has
(functionality, inter-operation, community, etc). But that isn't my
point. Yet, I think these decision criterias are important, changing
education isn't about doing the same things in the same ways we did
before. Otherwise, Sugar would never exists, as an example.
I also think that your argumentation is based on the idea that we
don't know moodle, and our ignorance is the reason why we are
criticizing it. Actually I've used Moodle for some time in different
situations and I'm using other LMS/CMS systems for more than 10
years. I think Moodle is a nice tool for several contexts (like grad
and undergrad courses), but it isn't a good tool for primary
education. In this scenario, it really misses the point.
AMADIS actually isn't really a product for widespread use. It is a
7 years umbrella research project that aims to answer one question:
What a web application should looks like to support constructionist
learning environments? My research group in Brazil is long know by our
research and work to promote and understand constructivism/
constructionism in our country. We wanted to know how to build web
tools that could support this learning environments at schools.
In this trail we have developed at least 4 different web
applications, and the tool know as AMADIS is the one we re implemented
at least 5 times during this period based in the feedback of the
students. Our objective wasn't to create a production like tool, but
to deeply reflect about the possibilities of web and learning.
During this time, the tool we find out had more impact for primary
schools students, was much more like SourceForge (site which I believe
is one of the best virtual web environments) than a CMS. Actually, I
think that school is already too much focused in courses, and we don't
need more tools to replicated this in the web And that is the
fundamental problem about CMS like systems. In my personal belief, and
in the practice of the research group I belong to, constructionism in
practice is much more related to the development of depth long term
projects (and this is where SF is good) than to the management of
courses, assignments, tests, grades.
I also believe that the number of tools isn't the most important
judgment criteria. Much more important than the number of tools is the
way you structure them inside your user interface. This isn't just
about how the make the UI more usable, but more important how to
reflect in the UI your main ideas about education.
I expect this message helps to clarify my ideas,
On 27/10/2008, at 08:49, Martin Langhoff wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Greg Smith
> <gregsmitholpc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The main idea is that there is another "asynchronous" concept of
>> collaboration which we may be able to implement with less complexity
>> than what we now call collaboration (e.g.
> I think I have this area covered with Moodle -- if you look in the
> wiki, I've described moodle as the base for the asynchronous
> educational tools. Amadis seems to be a comparatively young project
> trying to make a stab at the exact spot where Moodle has already
> succeeded in.
> It would be interesting to hear if anyone has in-depth experience with
> Moodle *and* with Amadis, but from what I see, Amadis trails moodle
> significnatly in
> - functionality - it is strictly a subset of what moodle offers
> - interop with many other tools - moodle's success means many other
> tools are compatible with it
> - widespread community of educators - thanks to network effects...
> - widespread community of developers (core devs and contributed
> modules devs)
> - long term viability
> - moodle has an clear and strong leadership that is rarely matched
> there are a least a few dozen LMS/CMSs of note -- but moodle is the
> yardstick at the moment, and has growing momentum, so it's a hard one
> to overtake.
> Lately we've been having recurring conversations about the XS where it
> is clear to me that you haven't seen or used Moodle. It's frustrating
> for both of us as you argue for features that I know are there, but
> you can't quite see "where". So I've signed you up for a compulsory
> Moodle course with me as soon as I visit 1CC :-)
> One on one. Mano a mano. You'll either understand why I'm so crazy
> about moodle, or commit me to a mental hospital.
> I am also planning to talk about this with the education team -- David
> and his co-conspirators -- and I am very interested in their feedback.
> From prior experience with educators, I think they'll like it :-).
> I'd like you to join those sessions too, not so much to hear me talk
> but to hear them.
> martin.langhoff at gmail.com
> martin at laptop.org -- School Server Architect
> - ask interesting questions
> - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
> - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
> Devel mailing list
> Devel at lists.laptop.org
Juliano Bittencourt <juliano at lec.ufrgs.br>
Laboratório de Estudos Cognitivos - LEC
Address: Rua Ramiro Barcelos, 2600 - Bairro Santa Cecília - Porto
Alegre - RS - Brasil
Phone: +55 51 3308 5250 and +55 51 3308 5690
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