Interested in the Google Summer of Code
karl
karl.ramberg at comhem.se
Thu Mar 20 04:43:13 EDT 2008
Bobby Powers wrote:
> Great, I am glad there is some interest! I just found your older
> email thread, Don, [1] on ideas for Micropolis, and I think that what
> I would like to do with system dynamic (SD) modeling can easily
> encompass the visual programming [2] ideas you and others have talked
> about. I believe the backend to support an agent-based approach is
> practically the same as what would be needed to create object-oriented
> system dynamics models. I've been reading up as much as I can on what
> visual programming tools are available or in development currently for
> the XO (I'm downloading an image right now to boot up and play with as
> we/I type), it seems like turtle art is the closest thing to fit the
> bill. I haven't really played with it much, but it looks quite
> impressive! My first thoughts are that it seems very nice for
> programming agents (like turtles), but its not as expressive for
> constructing system dynamics models (see [3] for some ideas I had a
> couple weeks ago as to how SD models could look).
Have you looked at Kedama which is part of the Etoys activity ?
It is quite powerful for programming up to 10000 turtles in simulations.
http://www.squeakland.org/fun_projects/kedama/kedma_welcome.htm
Karl
>
> It seems there are two main ways I could focus my attention (not
> necessarily mutually exclusive):
> 1. creating and expanding on a simulation engine that can access and
> perform operations on spatial and nonspatial data, and integrate with
> the unique features of the XO (collaboratively work on models with
> data sets and layers from different machines, for example)
> 2. focus on modularizing micropolis, getting its core logic into a
> form that is visually programmable on the XO (though Turtle Art,
> something new of mine, or even through Develop python editing) and
> adding some of the features Don had mentioned like programmable agents
> that can edit the world
>
>
> I will also try to post some information on the simulation engine that
> I'm currently working on to the web in the next few days, and look at
> how turtle art works (to see if there is something that can be adapted
> or at least learned from there). Where do the communities interests lie?
>
>
> yours, Bobby
>
>
> [1] http://mailman.laptop.org/pipermail/sugar/2007-March/001829.html
> [2] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Micropolis#Visual_Programming
> [3] http://www.bobbypowers.net/mockups.html
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin at gmail.com
> <mailto:echerlin at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> 2008/3/18 Bobby Powers <bobbypowers at gmail.com
> <mailto:bobbypowers at gmail.com>>:
> > Hi, I'm a master's student at the University of Bergen and I'm
> interested in
> > bringing System Dynamics to the XO. Before I start, if there is
> a better
> > mailing list for this just let me know (I briefly looked through
> the other
> > ones liked from the Wiki, and this seemed the most appropriate).
>
> Welcome! This is the place.
>
> > System Dynamics (SD) [1][2] aims to help people understand the
> world by
> > explicitly modeling how pieces of it work and then performing
> experiments in
> > these models. It is used around the world, frequently in
> majority world
> > countries, in development planning [3], for example. More
> formally, its a
> > methodology for examining and describing the behavior of complex
> systems
> > with an emphasis on the effects that feedback loops and time
> delays have.
> > At a basic level you have to specify the mathematical equations
> for the
> > different parts of your system. The same problems can be
> solved by writing
> > code in a programming language (I had a course taught in Fortran
> a year
> > ago...), but usually in SD the modeling is done using a visual
> editor where
> > you can show causal relationships, stocks and flows graphically. I
> > personally think the biggest short-fallings of the discipline
> are the
> > barriers to entry: the current software is far from intuitive
> and all the
> > major commercial offerings (there are no FLOSS products)
> [4][5][6] are very
> > expensive (educational licenses alone are frequently > $500 USD).
> >
> > Will Wright studied SD and used ideas from it when designing
> SimCity [7].
> > So I have several things I would like to work on: first is a
> core simulator
> > that can transform equations into code (I'm currently working on
> this for my
> > master's thesis, but don't have and funding. eesh): I'm using
> the JIT
> > library from the LLVM project to be able to do this. Second I
> want to
> > create a Sugar modeling interface that makes it easy and fun to
> create
> > models and explore their results (collaboratively, I hope!), and
> third I
> > want to hook this into Metropolis. I think it would just be so
> cool if you
> > could click an icon in Metropolis and have the visual model that
> controls
> > the Metropolis world pop up (in the aforementioned editor) and
> be able not
> > only to fiddle with parameters, but change the structure! If
> all of this
> > goes smoothly and there is more time, I would love to add the
> ability for
> > models to interact with and manipulate geospatial data.
> >
> > I guess I am looking for people's reaction, is this something
> people like?
>
> We don't just like it. Some of us are quite excited about it.
>
> We started a discussion not long ago involving.
>
> * Engineers Without Borders
> * The Geographic Information Systems community, including
> International Symposium on Digital Earth
> * Globe.co.uk <http://Globe.co.uk> (weather stations in schools in
> many countries)
> * Timepedia.org <http://Timepedia.org> (geographic and other free
> time series data)
>
> about community data gathering of environmental information, feeding
> to global mapping, and feeding from there back to communities and out
> to NGOs, governments, and international organizations. We are also
> discussing collection of health information, and anything else that we
> can feed into a computer that bears on the needs of the children and
> their communities.
>
> So the prospect of an engine that can start from our data and give us
> a peek into various possible futures is a jump up and dance type of
> idea.
>
> > I'm certainly willing to adapt myself to the collective needs
> and I wanted
> > to get a discussion started before the application deadline.
>
> Excellent.
>
> > Oh I guess a
> > little more background on me: I attended RPI in NY, USA for 2 years
> > studying computer engineering, but transferred because I wanted
> to do
> > something more applied. I studied environmental studies (at
> SUNY ESF) for a
> > couple years, and got back into coding through classes on ecological
> > modeling and GIS. I've been pretty heavily coding models,
> algorithms and
> > interfaces for the past 2 years, mainly in C#, ObjC and some
> Fortran, but
> > the past 3 months I've been using C++ for 8 hours a day and
> Python here and
> > there. I've got a Mac with Linux (both FC8 and openSUSE10.3)
> and Windows,
> > and I've just started over the past few weeks to pick up GTK,
> although I've
> > used Cairo in a project for a couple months. I've only dabbled
> with the XO,
> > but am really looking forward to developing bundles for it.
>
> I am User: Mokurai on the OLPC Wiki, and Founder of Earth Treasury. We
> intend to link schools around the world for various educational and
> research projects, and to teach the students how to create sustainable
> international businesses together.
>
> > I'm eager to hear what you think!
> > yours,
> > Bobby Powers
> >
> >
> > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_dynamics
> > [2] http://www.systemdynamics.org/
> > [3] http://www.millenniuminstitute.net/
> > [4] http://www.vensim.com/
> > [5] http://www.powersim.com/
> > [6] http://www.iseesystems.com/
> > [7] http://www.futuresalon.org/2004/11/will_wright_kic.html
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Devel at lists.laptop.org <mailto:Devel at lists.laptop.org>
> > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
>
> --
> Edward Cherlin
> End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business
> http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
> "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay
>
>
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